(March 21, 2018 at 11:20 pm)ignoramus Wrote: What if they can't cook?  Nah, fuck that!!!   lol

Yup. People with penises can't cook. Not many people know it but: Gordan Ramsay is the proud owner of a smooth dandy lady vagina and he has never had a penis anywhere but inside it.

(March 21, 2018 at 10:59 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(March 21, 2018 at 10:53 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: No way. It would be a deal breaker.

The clear crystallized knee-jerk response of a phobic person.

I disagree, hammy love.

I love women, men, w2m, m2w, regardless. I don’t judge those who don’t, though. I’m pansexual, and I’m ok if someone else isn’t.

A sexual relationship can be very psychological. You can’t ignore your thoughts. For example, if I know the person I’m with is dumb, has no intelligence of any kind, that’s a turn-off. I can’t help it. I just can’t go on. If I like a person, then find out we’re related, I’m out! I just can’t. If I’m attracted to them, then find out they they’re Mormon, my brain has lost all interest. It’s just gonna happen.

A person who is not attracted to a transsexual person is not necessarily a phobic person. We’re allowed to have preferences. A phobic or bigot would be a person who’s an asshole to transsexual people just because they’re transsexual. They don’t have to fuck them to prove they accept them.

That’s just me, though.

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I know an Asian dude who’s into white women only. That’s what he likes. He’s not racist, it’s just his taste! Lol

I know a guy who loves women with pretty feet. He won’t date girls with gnarly feet. He doesn’t hate all the other women with ugly feet, he just likes them a certain way.

I know a girl who likes her girls to be short. She doesn’t like to feel short next to them. She’s not a bigot against tall girls, it’s just her taste.

(March 21, 2018 at 11:28 pm)J a c k Wrote:

(March 21, 2018 at 10:59 pm)Hammy Wrote: The clear crystallized knee-jerk response of a phobic person.

I disagree, hammy love.

I love women, men, w2m, m2w, regardless. I don’t judge those who don’t, though. I’m pansexual, and I’m ok if someone else isn’t.

A sexual relationship can be very psychological. You can’t ignore your thoughts. For example, if I know the person I’m with is dumb, has no intelligence of any kind, that’s a turn-off. I can’t help it. I just can’t go on. If I like a person, then find out we’re related, I’m out! I just can’t. If I’m attracted to them, then find out they they’re Mormon, my brain has lost all interest. It’s just gonna happen.

A person who is not attracted to a transsexual person is not necessarily a phobic person. We’re allowed to have preferences. A phobic or bigot would be a person who’s an asshole to transsexual people just because they’re transsexual. They don’t have to fuck them to prove they accept them.

That’s just me, though.

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I know an Asian dude who’s into white women only. That’s what he likes. He’s not racist, it’s just his taste! Lol

I know a guy who loves women with pretty feet. He won’t date girls with gnarly feet. He doesn’t hate all the other women with ugly feet, he just likes them a certain way.

I know a girl who likes her girls to be short. She doesn’t like to feel short next to them. She’s not a bigot against tall girls, it’s just her taste.

I mean, I would find a penis in my mouth disgusting and that doesn't make me homophobic. But if to my surprise I didn't find it disgusting and then I pretended that I did... I can't think of why I would possibly lie to myself like that besides being homophobic even if I didn't know it.

For what it's worth, if I ever discovered that I had a gay side I would embrace it but if I didn't embrace that then I think that that would be homophobic of me. And, likewise, if I were to find someone to be highly attractive and then I discovered they were trans and I suddenly felt like I felt like they were no longer attractive... I think that would be transphobic of me for the same reason. But if I don't find any particular transperson attractive, or even if how they appear disgusts me sexually, I don't think that's transphobic, no. Just as if any particular dick in my mouth felt sexually disgusting to me I don't think that would make me homophobic.

I certainly don't think we can control what we are attracted to and I don't think ANYONE is bigoted for GENUINELY being attracted or not attracted to anyone or anything.... but what I am suspecting is that it's not actually possible to be genuinely turned off by the discovery of someone's chromosomes being different to what you thought they were (it's certainly possible to believe that you're no longer attracted but that's different (or believe that you believe that you're no longer attracted when deep down you know you still are and for the same reasons that you intially were, that had nothing to do with "Mmmm those tasty chromosones")), or to genuinely find someone of the same sex attractive and then suddenly bury those feelings without being homophobic when those feelings are still there.

Someone being stupid is certainly a genuine way to be turned off. But discovering someone's true chromosomes or that they had a sex change operation after you're already attracted to their mind and body before discovering that... is not like not being attracted to someone's body or mind.

Like I said on the other thread, I'd never consider someone who wasn't attracted to any particular black person to be a racist either. We can't help what we're attracted to. That isn't racist. Just as not being attracted to any particular transperson is not transphobic. Even if it happens to be all transpeople. Or all black people. But to not be attracted to someone because they're black, or to not be attracted to someone because they're trans, regardless of how your body and heart flows for them once you discover that they were born that way and you've already been attracted to them... how is that not racist or transphobic?

If I had sex with them and liked it, but then later found out, yes, it would bother me. Not because of the chromosomes, but rather because I would no longer think of their vagina as 'just a vagina', but rather as an artificially created wound that is an imitation of a vagina. The thought of a penis being chopped up and reversed or whatever into a vagina grosses me out, but hey, I don't even like fake tits on strippers and find those to be a big turn off. I don't think any less of trans girls as people though, and I'm happy for those who do not find it gross or a turn off, and I hope trans people find happiness, love, and whatever else they're looking for in life. I want them to be themselves and I fully respect their identity, and I sympathize with how frustrating it must be for them to have someone walk out on them over who they are, but that's life. You win some and you lose some.

I cut off a relationship with someone I really liked because she couldn't have kids, so that's something I've done before that might have determined whether or not I was going to stay involved.   I guess that wouldn't matter much anymore since I got all the kids I wanted and now I'm looking to auction them off to a saudi prince if that can be arranged.

(March 22, 2018 at 12:06 am)FFaith Wrote: an artificially created wound that is an imitation of a vagina.

Lol... and you think that seeing a transperson's genitals that way isn't transphobic? Stating what something objectively is doesn't change how it feels... why are you framing that so negatively? Yes, technically it's an artificially created vagina. But so what? To call it a "wound" or "imitation" after you've just enjoyed having sex with it as you would any vagina, and to recoil and act as if that changes anything... all that reeks of transphobia.

See, and I know from experience that it wouldn’t bother me and that I can certainly be very attracted to a person who has had that surgery, but! Reading someone’s reasoning about why they aren’t doesn’t make me think they’re transphobic. I just think there’s a lot going on in the brain during sex.

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Hammy, for what it’s worth, I’m giving your answers some thought. I’m not closed to your reasoning. I just disagree at the moment.

This reminded me of a time a forum member sent me a message asking me what stage of my transition I was at. Ha! Because I changed my name to Jack here, I think it was. I’m a woman by birth, and still a woman. FYI. I’m still king of swag, though.

(March 22, 2018 at 12:09 am)Khemikal Wrote: I cut off a relationship with someone I really liked because she couldn't have kids, so that's something I've done before that might have determined whether or not I was going to stay involved.   I guess that wouldn't matter much anymore since I got all the kids I wanted and now I'm looking to auction them off to a saudi prince if that can be arranged.

The thing is, that would apply to an infertile ciswoman equally.

Being turned off by a transwoman because they're infertile is fine. Being turned off by a ciswoman because they're infertile is fine. Being turned off by a particular transwoman because you happen to not be attracted to them is fine. Being turned off by a particular black person because you happen to not be attracted to them is fine. Being unattracted to all transwomen you've ever met in your life, because you happen to have not been attracted to any of them ever in your life so far is fine. Being unattracted to all black people you've ever met in your life, because you happen to have not been attracted to any of them ever in your life so far is fine. Being unnattracted to all dudes because you've never been attracted to any dude ever so far in your life is fine. Deeming yourself a hereosexual because you've never met a dude you've ever been attracted to is fine. Being unattracted to a transperson because they're trans, or unattracted to a black person because they're black, or unattracted to a dude because he's a dude or unattracted to a cis person because they're a cis person, or unattracted to a woman because they're a woman... none of that is fine, or even genuine. We are attracted to people or objects as they appear to us in this world (both physically and mentally) and pretending like we objectively like the particular essence of a person that doesn't exist or we have some kind of chromosome fetish or racial DNA fetish or whatever.... all of that just reeks of phobia.

Sure, okay, maybe there's 0.0.0.0.0.01% of the population that actually has a chromosomes fetish or a DNA fetish or whatever. Some people also have a car fetish and literally fuck exhaust pipes (there's been documentaries about that). But 99.999999999% of people are attracted to.... people. Or at least people's body parts or even toys that resemble them.... not chromosomes or DNA strands. I wouldn't call a chromosomes fetishist a bigot after discovering that someone had different chromosomes to they thought when that was really what got them off the most "Mmmmm chromosomes. Gets me so hard"..... but for me to pretend like everyone in the world is a chromosome fetishist (if they even exist at all... they're probably rarer than people sexually attracted to buses or airplanes. I mean, this is a molecule fetish we're talking about).... for me to pretend like everyone in the world who gets turned off after discovering someone is trans or black or whatever, because they're trans or black or whatever (both are equally irrelevant just like being cis or white is), and not because of how they appear to the person's senses and how their body genuinely responds.... I mean... do I even have to explain this further?

(March 21, 2018 at 8:47 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This question comes from the exchange between Ham and Flying Narwhal on this thread:  https://atheistforums.org/thread-53967.html (relevant part begins on page 2). 

So, I got curious and wanted to ask here. If you were initially attracted to someone you saw and spoke with (maybe went on a couple dates with), and found out after the fact that this person is biologically male because they told you, would this fact alone be a deal breaker to you in terms of continuing to pursue a romantic relationship? Would you no longer feel sexually attracted to the person nor interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with them? Please be honest and explain your response. 

*Assume this person has done all the sex reassignment surgical procedures/hormone therapy, etc, for the transition process and looks feminine.

I already stated a long time ago that for me it definitely would be a deal breaker, I wouldn't have a romantic involvement with someone who's trans.

I get turned off at the thought a girl used to be a man with a penis, it's just psychological.

(March 22, 2018 at 12:33 am)paulpablo Wrote: I already stated a long time ago that for me it definitely would be a deal breaker

And there's no surprise there!

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(March 22, 2018 at 12:33 am)paulpablo Wrote: I get turned off at the thought a girl used to be a man with a penis, it's just psychological.

Just like phobias are. Ding!

Sure, not everything psychological is a phobia... but this very clearly is. I mean, come on, if you were brought up in a culture where being trans and cis were both considered equally normal you wouldn't have this phobia. We're talking about someone who you intially start being attracted to and then discover they used to have a penis, and we're asking why you thinking about that turns you off. It's your upbringing and life experience, not your innate heterosexuality talking here.

It's not like a dude just put a penis in your ear. I almost certainly wouldn't ever like that either. (But if I ever did I wouldn't pretend I didn't. And yes. Even in the ear. Either we like something or we don't. (in my case no thanks I reckon LOL))