Reminds me of that old Rodney Dangerfield joke.

"When I was a kid we were so poor that if I wasn't a boy I'd have had nothing to play with."

(March 22, 2018 at 1:39 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Haha! You made me think of "Dennis the Menace" style shenanigans from our tiny apocalyptic prophet.

The (s)hit sitcom starring Justin Beiber as Joseph, Lady Gaga as the "virgin" Mary, and introducing Noah Sanctimonious as Young Jesus.

(March 21, 2018 at 8:23 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: So, we think Jesus, age 2, is looking at someone, sneezes, and that person changes into a newt or something ??

I got better.

(March 21, 2018 at 9:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Well, you know.  He did his bit.

And the prequel

(March 22, 2018 at 1:10 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 21, 2018 at 6:43 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Much is debated about the authenticity and authorship of the Gospels. For the sake of this argument, let's assume some accuracy in their telling of Jesus's adult ministry. We do not have to argue about eyewitnesses, miracles, resurrections, or ascensions. Let's argue about the life of Jesus before the age of twelve. How did the writers gather this "historical" data?

mary

Who interviewed Mary and how do you know this?

(March 21, 2018 at 6:43 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Much is debated about the authenticity and authorship of the Gospels. For the sake of this argument, let's assume some accuracy in their telling of Jesus's adult ministry. We do not have to argue about eyewitnesses, miracles, resurrections, or ascensions. Let's argue about the life of Jesus before the age of twelve. How did the writers gather this "historical" data?

The same could be argued about the early life of Mohammed or Buddha or Horus. 

Mythology is mythology. Arguing over who existed or did not exist is pointless to me. 

If they found the DNA of Jesus or Mohammed tomorrow that would still not be evidence that humans have guy at the local horse races with a prophet who picks the Exacta. 

ESPN ESP SPORTS PROPHET NETWORK....... BREAKING NEWS

In the Kentucky Derby the results are in.

It's "Magic Baby" by a nose.

In second place " Allah Chocolate Bar"

In third place " Mel Brooks"

Mythology can certainly be derived from real events, but that does not make the fantastic claims true. King Tut can be proven to have existed, but and the Pyramids are beautiful, but nobody would claim because he existed that Horus was a real savior god. Oh yea, if Christians don't want to think of Horus as a savior that would be bullshit. Horus was the son of Osiris and Isis who was deemed by Ra  to come and save the Egyptians. 

Same with the mythology of Buddha. It does not matter to me if a group of people started Buddhism. It still remains that the mythology, even in his case, had him being born from a royal linage out of the side of Queen Maya, Buddha's mother, who was supposed to be the boy who would grow up to bring wisdom to the world.

(March 22, 2018 at 8:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 21, 2018 at 6:43 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Much is debated about the authenticity and authorship of the Gospels. For the sake of this argument, let's assume some accuracy in their telling of Jesus's adult ministry. We do not have to argue about eyewitnesses, miracles, resurrections, or ascensions. Let's argue about the life of Jesus before the age of twelve. How did the writers gather this "historical" data?

The same could be argued about the early life of Mohammed or Buddha or Horus. 

Mythology is mythology. Arguing over who existed or did not exist is pointless to me. 

If they found the DNA of Jesus or Mohammed tomorrow that would still not be evidence that humans have guy at the local horse races with a prophet who picks the Exacta. 

ESPN ESP SPORTS PROPHET NETWORK....... BREAKING NEWS

In the Kentucky Derby the results are in.

It's "Magic Baby" by a nose.

In second place " Allah Chocolate Bar"

In third place " Mel Brooks"

Mythology can certainly be derived from real events, but that does not make the fantastic claims true. King Tut can be proven to have existed, but and the Pyramids are beautiful, but nobody would claim because he existed that Horus was a real savior god. Oh yea, if Christians don't want to think of Horus as a savior that would be bullshit. Horus was the son of Osiris and Isis who was deemed by Ra  to come and save the Egyptians. 

Same with the mythology of Buddha. It does not matter to me if a group of people started Buddhism. It still remains that the mythology, even in his case, had him being born from a royal linage out of the side of Queen Maya, Buddha's mother, who was supposed to be the boy who would grow up to bring wisdom to the world.

I agree. But, the argument for the adult ministry of Jesus is that there were eyewitnesses. So, where did the historical data for Jesus's early years come from?

(March 22, 2018 at 8:11 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(March 22, 2018 at 8:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The same could be argued about the early life of Mohammed or Buddha or Horus. 

Mythology is mythology. Arguing over who existed or did not exist is pointless to me. 

If they found the DNA of Jesus or Mohammed tomorrow that would still not be evidence that humans have guy at the local horse races with a prophet who picks the Exacta. 

ESPN ESP SPORTS PROPHET NETWORK....... BREAKING NEWS

In the Kentucky Derby the results are in.

It's "Magic Baby" by a nose.

In second place " Allah Chocolate Bar"

In third place " Mel Brooks"

Mythology can certainly be derived from real events, but that does not make the fantastic claims true. King Tut can be proven to have existed, but and the Pyramids are beautiful, but nobody would claim because he existed that Horus was a real savior god. Oh yea, if Christians don't want to think of Horus as a savior that would be bullshit. Horus was the son of Osiris and Isis who was deemed by Ra  to come and save the Egyptians. 

Same with the mythology of Buddha. It does not matter to me if a group of people started Buddhism. It still remains that the mythology, even in his case, had him being born from a royal linage out of the side of Queen Maya, Buddha's mother, who was supposed to be the boy who would grow up to bring wisdom to the world.

I agree. But, the argument for the adult ministry of Jesus is that there were eyewitnesses. So, where did the historical data for Jesus's early years come from?

If nobody ever claimed they got it right, there would be no claims. Claims always come from some account made by someone. No religion escapes this. Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists all claim their histories. That means no matter how far back you go in those respective histories, someone is always claiming direct witness at the alleged origin of the start of any of those religions.

When you sample enough of all of those you always see conflict as to where the core characters started and what their histories were. You ask a Tibet Buddhist vs a Chinese Buddhist vs a Japanese Shinto Buddhist where the first Buddha lived, there might be some overlap but no absolute agreement. Muslims also wont agree on what exact part of the Arab world he existed or what his message was. 

Just like you find conflict in the new testament about all the begats between the gospels.

If you push a Catholic and Baptist hard enough, of course they will agree that Jesus existed, but you won't get them to agree on interpretation. No different with Jews or Hindus or Buddhists and their own claimed histories.

My point is regardless, magic men do not exist. Saviors do not exist, and prophets do not exist.

(March 22, 2018 at 8:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 22, 2018 at 8:11 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I agree. But, the argument for the adult ministry of Jesus is that there were eyewitnesses. So, where did the historical data for Jesus's early years come from?

If nobody ever claimed they got it right, there would be no claims. Claims always come from some account made by someone. No religion escapes this. Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists all claim their histories. That means no matter how far back you go in those respective histories, someone is always claiming direct witness at the alleged origin of the start of any of those religions.

When you sample enough of all of those you always see conflict as to where the core characters started and what their histories were. You ask a Tibet Buddhist vs a Chinese Buddhist vs a Japanese Shinto Buddhist where the first Buddha lived, there might be some overlap but no absolute agreement. Muslims also wont agree on what exact part of the Arab world he existed or what his message was. 

Just like you find conflict in the new testament about all the begats between the gospels.

If you push a Catholic and Baptist hard enough, of course they will agree that Jesus existed, but you won't get them to agree on interpretation. No different with Jews or Hindus or Buddhists and their own claimed histories.

My point is regardless, magic men do not exist. Saviors do not exist, and prophets to not exist.

I agree. But, since the authority of the adult ministry of Jesus is validated by eyewitnesses, I want to know which eyewitnesses are cited for the Immaculate Conception, birth in a manger, and who did the interviews 33-100 years later.

(March 22, 2018 at 8:35 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(March 22, 2018 at 8:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If nobody ever claimed they got it right, there would be no claims. Claims always come from some account made by someone. No religion escapes this. Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists all claim their histories. That means no matter how far back you go in those respective histories, someone is always claiming direct witness at the alleged origin of the start of any of those religions.

When you sample enough of all of those you always see conflict as to where the core characters started and what their histories were. You ask a Tibet Buddhist vs a Chinese Buddhist vs a Japanese Shinto Buddhist where the first Buddha lived, there might be some overlap but no absolute agreement. Muslims also wont agree on what exact part of the Arab world he existed or what his message was. 

Just like you find conflict in the new testament about all the begats between the gospels.

If you push a Catholic and Baptist hard enough, of course they will agree that Jesus existed, but you won't get them to agree on interpretation. No different with Jews or Hindus or Buddhists and their own claimed histories.

My point is regardless, magic men do not exist. Saviors do not exist, and prophets to not exist.

I agree. But, since the authority of the adult ministry of Jesus is validated by eyewitnesses, I want to know which eyewitnesses are cited for the Immaculate Conception, birth in a manger, and who did the interviews 33-100 years later.

Stop making this about just one religion. 

I think your point is why didn't anyone during the alleged time write anything down. I GET THAT.

I'd seriously suggest you spend some time looking up the history of the "first days" of other "founders" of other religions. You will find just as much inconsistency and superstitious nonsense. 

Again, the mythology of the first Buddha had him being born out of the side of his mother Queen Maya. She, like the Virgin Mary myth was told by the divine world that she would give a gift to the world.

In Egyptian Mythology Isis, Mother of Horus gave birth to the child savior to the Egyptians.

I think you are getting stuck on the popularity of that tradition instead of focusing on evidence. 

If Trump told you he had the biggest crowd at his inauguration would you believe him? If his fans told you that would you believe them?