(April 6, 2018 at 12:59 am)He lives Wrote:

He lives Wrote:I have learned many things, too many to elaborate on here. I like to keep abreast of current beliefs and the reasoning behind those beliefs. I have been asked for empirical evidence for my belief in Christianity. However neither of us has empirical evidence concerning the existence of life. This is one of the messages I received:

downbeatplumb Wrote:Life started by some natural process that is what abiogenesis says. There are even some very good ideas as to what they could have been.

But for god there is nothing, what is a god made of and how did it start life? What was its process I want supporting evidence for your conclusions.

Got nothing have you.



You also have the problem that one of the main things that damages societies is religion.

If you look at religious countries now they are all repressive hell holes.
You look at history, religious countries have always been repressive hell holes. From the Aztecs to the protestants, kill oppress and control.

There is no evidence for the claims made by abiogenesis that I know of. I believe that God is made of matter which has always existed however it is much finer matter and we can not see that matter unless it is shown to us. I also believe that our bodies were engineered. There are many eye witness accounts as evidence that God does exist.

I do have a problem with people who believe that religious countries are repressive. I believe that North Korea is very repressive. I also consider the United States to be a religious country.

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(April 5, 2018 at 8:06 pm)Jehanne Wrote: What empirical evidence do you have for your claim?

If you have empirical evidence for biogenesis, I would like to see it.

What is god made of?  How does he act?  What are the mechanisms?  I need a detailed, well-evidenced description or else I can rationally dismiss your claim.  You don’t get to demand evidence of the exact, step-by-step mechanics of abiogenesis unless you can do the same for your pet god-hypothesis.

(April 6, 2018 at 11:23 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2018 at 12:59 am)He lives Wrote: There is no evidence for the claims made by abiogenesis that I know of. I believe that God is made of matter which has always existed however it is much finer matter and we can not see that matter unless it is shown to us. I also believe that our bodies were engineered. There are many eye witness accounts as evidence that God does exist.

I do have a problem with people who believe that religious countries are repressive. I believe that North Korea is very repressive. I also consider the United States to be a religious country.

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If you have empirical evidence for biogenesis, I would like to see it.

What is god made of?  How does he act?  What are the mechanisms?  I need a detailed, well-evidenced description or else I can rationally dismiss your claim.  You don’t get to demand evidence of the exact, step-by-step mechanics of abiogenesis unless you can do the same for your pet god-hypothesis.

Oh, so what you're saying it that you dismiss abiogenesis based upon the aforementioned premise.

This link is really dated, but it shows that scientists have been working on this problem for a long time:

https://www.nap.edu/read/12369/chapter/6

(April 6, 2018 at 11:54 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(April 6, 2018 at 11:23 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: What is god made of?  How does he act?  What are the mechanisms?  I need a detailed, well-evidenced description or else I can rationally dismiss your claim.  You don’t get to demand evidence of the exact, step-by-step mechanics of abiogenesis unless you can do the same for your pet god-hypothesis.

Oh, so what you're saying it that you dismiss abiogenesis based upon the aforementioned premise.

Hey, Huggy.  If you look up, you can see my point flying way above your head.  As usual, lol.

(April 6, 2018 at 11:23 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2018 at 12:59 am)He lives Wrote: There is no evidence for the claims made by abiogenesis that I know of. I believe that God is made of matter which has always existed however it is much finer matter and we can not see that matter unless it is shown to us. I also believe that our bodies were engineered. There are many eye witness accounts as evidence that God does exist.

I do have a problem with people who believe that religious countries are repressive. I believe that North Korea is very repressive. I also consider the United States to be a religious country.

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If you have empirical evidence for biogenesis, I would like to see it.

What is god made of?  How does he act?  What are the mechanisms?  I need a detailed, well-evidenced description or else I can rationally dismiss your claim.  You don’t get to demand evidence of the exact, step-by-step mechanics of abiogenesis unless you can do the same for your pet god-hypothesis.

God is made of matter. Many people have seen him. People who demand empirical evidence of me will get empirical evidence demanded of them. Otherwise they have a double standard.

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(April 6, 2018 at 11:54 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(April 6, 2018 at 11:23 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: What is god made of?  How does he act?  What are the mechanisms?  I need a detailed, well-evidenced description or else I can rationally dismiss your claim.  You don’t get to demand evidence of the exact, step-by-step mechanics of abiogenesis unless you can do the same for your pet god-hypothesis.

Oh, so what you're saying it that you dismiss abiogenesis based upon the aforementioned premise.

I believe that abiogenesis is a dead end road.

And if any of you understood the current state of abiogenetic studies, or had a relevant qualification I would be worried.

It is the terminal god of the gaps. And most of you can't even grasp evolution.

In the history of science we have; Nature 100%, Supernature 0.

Some of you fucks even believe in a global flood, young Earth and talking snakes.

Too dumb to even bother with.

That is precisely why I'm getting very tired of the word abiogenesis. Just like JR said, it's god of the gaps reasoning.

***HE LIVES AND HUGGY***

If tomorrow morning, scientists learn how to create life in a laboratory (thus proving abiogenesis), would either of you renounce your religion right then and there? (Think about that question. Let it sink in.)

If the answer is no, stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant.

(April 6, 2018 at 3:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: That is precisely why I'm getting very tired of the word abiogenesis. Just like JR said, it's god of the gaps reasoning.

***HE LIVES AND HUGGY***

If tomorrow morning, scientists learn how to create life in a laboratory (thus proving abiogenesis), would either of you renounce your religion right then and there? (Think about that question. Let it sink in.)

If the answer is no, stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant.

Well, then the goal posts would be moved to, ‘creating it in a lab doesn’t count as natural’, lol.

(April 6, 2018 at 3:16 pm)JackRussell Wrote: And if any of you understood the current state of abiogenetic studies, or had a relevant qualification I would be worried.

It is the terminal god of the gaps. And most of you can't even grasp evolution.

In the history of science we have; Nature 100%, Supernature 0.

Some of you fucks even believe in a global flood, young Earth and talking snakes.

Too dumb to even bother with.

God of the gaps or abiogenesis of the gaps. It is the same thing.

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(April 6, 2018 at 3:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: That is precisely why I'm getting very tired of the word abiogenesis. Just like JR said, it's god of the gaps reasoning.

***HE LIVES AND HUGGY***

If tomorrow morning, scientists learn how to create life in a laboratory (thus proving abiogenesis), would either of you renounce your religion right then and there? (Think about that question. Let it sink in.)

If the answer is no, stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant.

If it was proven tomorrow that conscience exists outside of the body or that the spirit really does leave the body when we die would you believe in God?

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(April 6, 2018 at 3:39 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2018 at 3:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: That is precisely why I'm getting very tired of the word abiogenesis. Just like JR said, it's god of the gaps reasoning.

***HE LIVES AND HUGGY***

If tomorrow morning, scientists learn how to create life in a laboratory (thus proving abiogenesis), would either of you renounce your religion right then and there? (Think about that question. Let it sink in.)

If the answer is no, stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant.

Well, then the goal posts would be moved to, ‘creating it in a lab doesn’t count as natural’, lol.

Scientists have been trying to create life for a long time.

(April 6, 2018 at 7:47 pm)He lives Wrote: If it was proven tomorrow that conscience exists outside of the body or that the spirit really does leave the body when we die would you believe in God?

I would certainly reexamine my beliefs about God if it were proven that consciousness didn't depend upon bodily states. However, it does not follow that if consciousness can exist independently from the body therefore God exists, so I would not immediately believe in God if I were to find that out.

I'll give you this though, if it was proven tomorrow that consciousness exists outside of the body, then I would believe that consciousness exists outside of the body.

PS: I answered your question, but you didn't answer mine.