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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:03 am
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2011 at 12:04 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The notion that all religions touch upon the same mystic/magic/force is ridiculous. The worlds religions are clearly in great discord, and more can be said of the differences than the similarities. Only a very rough generalization of any narrative would be able to give the slightest hint of concordance. Problematic, since many insist on a very specific interpretation from within their own pages. Everyone can't be right, but everyone can be wrong.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:05 am
(September 3, 2011 at 11:43 pm)Rhythm Wrote: They aren't? You have evidence? I'm not even attempting to be an ass about this. The myths exist, but the gods therein have never been found. In fact not only have they never been found, the things they we're given credit (or responsibility) for happen to be perfectly natural in every case ever investigated.
And I'm not being an ass about it either when I say that if all you are familiar with is the exoteric, you've missed out on the full picture. I'm not talking about gods or any big daddy in the sky sort of thing, but Brahman, to use one term among many.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:06 am
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2011 at 12:08 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(September 4, 2011 at 12:01 am)Fred Wrote: (September 3, 2011 at 11:52 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Very glib answer but you have not addressed the question I raised.
I don't know what was glib about it. Seems straight forward to me. Regardless, the folks who have observed are the folks following the esoteric systems I mentioned in my last post, the yogis, sufis, the zen folk, the Christian mystics, kabbalahist, et. al.
Ah... personal observation is what you are arguing as being acurate??
What was it Rhythm? Solipsism?? (Nice word that  )
What of Brahman?
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:08 am
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2011 at 12:16 am by The Grand Nudger.)
What about Brahman? The Upanishads postulate Brahman as an "everything" answer, which is precisely why it is a "nothing" answer. The people who put forward these theories (and that's what they were) were deeply and profoundly ignorant of the world around them by any standard of today. Even within Hinduism atheism is one of the oldest schools of thought. Nastikas and Cavarka. Actually, (and I just wrote something about this..lol) a Hindu "brahmin" is the first person in history on record as an atheist. Brahman is an ambiguous word isn't it, it either means the ultimate spirit, or a priest (rendered as brahmin). It's amusing, because Cavarka thought the "divinity" and "priests" were one in the same, IE, that it was a load of shit designed to feed priests.
Hinduism FTW!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka
(check out those "core beliefs")
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:13 am
(September 4, 2011 at 12:03 am)Rhythm Wrote: The notion that all religions touch upon the same mystic/magic/force is ridiculous. The worlds religions are clearly in great discord, and more can be said of the differences than the similarities. Only a very rough generalization of any narrative would be able to give the slightest hint of concordance. Problematic, since many insist on a very specific interpretation from within their own pages. Everyone can't be right, but everyone can be wrong.
Uh, you need to widen your lense. The exoteric elements are in discord, but the esoteric elements are not. Saying they are ridiculous has the same ring as "evolution is just a theory." A pure eye-roller. Even a cursory examination of the world's mystical literature would show you how off base such a sentiment is.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:15 am
Sorry Rythm..that "What of Brahman" question was aimed @ Fred ...but thanks for the reply.
(Fred=Interesting fr0d0 equivalent I am thinking)
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:18 am
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2011 at 12:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
A cursory glance? I can quote the Upanishads ffs..and I'm a redneck. To you, they may seem very much the same, and there are places where there is convergence..which again, has a better explanation than "the truth of the godhead" behind it. But we have to interpret things into the text (a massively edited text) to make every religion somehow true. That's just not how it works. The conclusion must fit the observation, not the other way around. Point is, stop assuming I don't have a clue wtf I'm talking about and start showing the vast overarching commonalities. Explain why "godhead" best fits the observations you make.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:27 am
Quote:Hey, can we keep the bible bit out of this?
I don't see how.
Is there another god you'd like to discuss which is not dependent on the Big Book of Fairy Tales?
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:30 am
(September 4, 2011 at 12:18 am)Rhythm Wrote: A cursory glance? I can quote the Upanishads ffs..and I'm a redneck. To you, they may seem very much the same, and there are places where there is convergence..which again, has a better explanation than "the truth of the godhead" behind it. But we have to interpret things into the text (a massively edited text) to make every religion somehow true. That's just not how it works. The conclusion must fit the observation, not the other way around. Point is, stop assuming I don't have a clue wtf I'm talking about and start showing the vast overarching commonalities. Explain why "godhead" best fits the observations you make.
I will have to get back to you tomorrow. I'm in a cafe and they are closing. till then, it's not about the text it's about the experience. Regardless, they are putting the chairs up and kicking me out.
As to the evidence question, here's another I will leave you with. what evidence is there for a materialistic world being the only reality? that's an extraordinary claim, so the onus of proof is on those who make it.
What do you have to support it?
Till tomorrow.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 4, 2011 at 12:32 am
Yep, np, till tomorrow. Kick a rock on your way home and then refute it for me here on the internet. There's my evidence.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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