(April 10, 2018 at 2:36 am)robvalue Wrote: Not just one sceptic jumping to conclusions... apparently every single one is.

This is entirely backwards. Sceptics are not jumping to conclusions, they are awaiting firm evidence. That's what being a sceptic means. The idea that none of them have noticed this evidence or even tried to find it is rather absurd.

These could be pseudo skeptics and not real skeptics as paranormal researchers claim.

I found the ramblings of the YouTube guy quite englightening. He said something like, "If we're just bags of meat with no inherent meaning, that's important to know". Why is it important? Since his next step was nihilism after that, is he going to turn into a raging murderer upon that conclusion? Or is he, in fact, going to do fuck all?

Also, I've never heard any sceptic say that no amount of evidence would change their mind about the paranormal, or any other subject. I wouldn't consider them a sceptic if they did say that. So suggesting sceptics could be closed minded is invalid.

All sceptics, from all walks of life, with all sorts of training, in all sorts of countries... none of them have been shown any convincing evidence. And it's not like there are sceptic committees. These are individuals, all coming to their own conclusions. There's no conspiracy. If there ever was a litmus test for bullshit, it's sceptics.

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(April 10, 2018 at 2:42 am)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 10, 2018 at 2:36 am)robvalue Wrote: Not just one sceptic jumping to conclusions... apparently every single one is.

This is entirely backwards. Sceptics are not jumping to conclusions, they are awaiting firm evidence. That's what being a sceptic means. The idea that none of them have noticed this evidence or even tried to find it is rather absurd.

These could be pseudo skeptics and not real skeptics as paranormal researchers claim.

So they're claiming all sceptics are pseudo sceptics? That's yet another claim, where is their evidence for that?

Entirely absent, along with the evidence that would convince sceptics in the first place. Of course they're going to try to undermine genuine science and sceptics, because they're working backwards from conclusions and trying to make evidence fit.

(April 10, 2018 at 3:14 am)robvalue Wrote: I found the ramblings of the YouTube guy quite englightening. He said something like, "If we're just bags of meat with no inherent meaning, that's important to know". Why is it important? Since his next step was nihilism after that, is he going to turn into a raging murderer upon that conclusion? Or is he, in fact, going to do fuck all?

Also, I've never heard any sceptic say that no amount of evidence would change their mind about the paranormal, or any other subject. I wouldn't consider them a sceptic if they did say that. So suggesting sceptics could be closed minded is invalid.

All sceptics, from all walks of life, with all sorts of training, in all sorts of countries... none of them have been shown any convincing evidence. And it's not like there are sceptic committees. These are individuals, all coming to their own conclusions. There's no conspiracy. If there ever was a litmus test for bullshit, it's sceptics.

Yes, skeptics would say they are open minded.  But that doesn't mean they really are being open minded.  There could still be actual evidence for the paranormal and that skeptics are being close minded in their conclusions regardless of the fact that they say they would accept any evidence for the paranormal.  Another thing you said was that it would be absurd for all skeptics to be in denial of existing evidence for the paranormal.  But it is a fact that there will be one side of a debate and another side of a debate.  Each has their own views.  All Christians will be Christians and they could all be in denial of the real truth.  Likewise, all skeptics will be skeptics and they could all be in denial of the paranormal evidence.

You think in extremely binary terms.

(April 10, 2018 at 3:49 am)robvalue Wrote: You think in extremely binary terms.

Some skeptics do become proponents of the paranormal.  They become convinced that there really is actual evidence.  In which case, they would no longer be skeptics.  But, as for the people who are still skeptics, there could be actual evidence for the paranormal and they are just in denial of that evidence.

(April 10, 2018 at 2:36 am)robvalue Wrote: Not just one sceptic jumping to conclusions... apparently every single one is.

This is entirely backwards. Sceptics are not jumping to conclusions, they are awaiting firm evidence. That's what being a sceptic means. The idea that none of them have noticed this evidence or even tried to find it is rather absurd.

But according to troll-bot they are taking short cuts. Rather than devoting their entire lives to exhaustively taking in every shred of could-be evidence they just jump to the position that it is probably all hog wash. Of course troll-bot doesn't do that himself because he values his own projects more, same as we do. But troll-bot just wants everyone to agree that he is superior for holding pseudo-researchers in equal esteem to those investigating quantum mechanics, being as he is in no position to judge either one. I suspect he just lacks our confidence in the peer review process available to every serious researcher in any empirical investigation. If his pseudo-researchers want my respect they can bring what they have to one of those. If the best in the field sign off on their work, then I might give it a little attention stolen away from my own precious projects .. maybe.

This Radin guy is a lunatic, or else a con man selling books to the gullible.

(April 10, 2018 at 4:18 am)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 10, 2018 at 3:49 am)robvalue Wrote: You think in extremely binary terms.

Some skeptics do become proponents of the paranormal.  They become convinced that there really is actual evidence.  In which case, they would no longer be skeptics.  But, as for the people who are still skeptics, there could be actual evidence for the paranormal and they are just in denial of that evidence.

That sounds suspiciously like 'you know there's a god, you are just suppressing it'

You can't suppress evidence that does not exist.

(April 10, 2018 at 6:29 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(April 10, 2018 at 2:36 am)robvalue Wrote: Not just one sceptic jumping to conclusions... apparently every single one is.

This is entirely backwards. Sceptics are not jumping to conclusions, they are awaiting firm evidence. That's what being a sceptic means. The idea that none of them have noticed this evidence or even tried to find it is rather absurd.

But according to troll-bot they are taking short cuts.  Rather than devoting their entire lives to exhaustively taking in every shred of could-be evidence they just jump to the position that it is probably all hog wash.  Of course troll-bot doesn't do that himself because he values his own projects more, same as we do.  But troll-bot just wants everyone to agree that he is superior for holding pseudo-researchers in equal esteem to those investigating quantum mechanics, being as he is in no position to judge either one.  I suspect he just lacks our confidence in the peer review process available to every serious researcher in any empirical investigation.  If his pseudo-researchers want my respect they can bring what they have to one of those.  If the best in the field sign off on their work, then I might give it a little attention stolen away from my own precious projects .. maybe.

The paranormal researchers such as Dean Radin claim there is peer reviewed research.  It is called IONS.  If any skeptic objects to this, then it could still be possible they are being close minded and jumping to conclusions using their shortcuts:

http://noetic.org/research/psi-research

I claim that you're full of shit.  I guess you'll never really know whether or not you're full of shit.  : shrugs :