(April 17, 2018 at 5:09 pm)He lives Wrote:

(April 16, 2018 at 11:53 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: What the brain picks up that we're not initially aware of is amazing.

And many anaestetics take time to be fully effective.

Edit.  Why would he put his reputation on the line.  We could ask the same of a certain famous neurosurgeon who, not so long ago, ran for US president while promoting batshit crazy ideas.

So you are saying that the brain has the ability to detect post it notes on a monitor while the eyes are closed? Can you do that? Can you go into a room you have never been in before blindfolded and afterwards describe everything in the room just by detecting it with your brain?

Why, then, has such a phenomenon failed to appear every time it has been subjected to scientific testing? 

What kind of surgeon would blindfold their patients?

Are you unaware that you actually spend some time wide awake in the theatre before surgery? Every time I have been I have spent some idle time looking around before the action starts.

Yup, it will fail every single time under scientific conditions. If you put something high up where the patient can't see it, conscious or not, and then put them under so they can then "float up" and look at it, it will fail. I would put money in it, £100 from me against every £1 from you. Same deal if you decide to nearly kill them so they can have a NDE. That's pretty fucked up, though.

All it needs is proper organization and supervision, without any possibility of jiggery-pokery, and all that magic power just dissipates. Anecdotes do not count. Anyone can have any power they like in an anecdote.

I have had a near death experience. I once experienced nearly dying.

None of that out of body experience shit though. Although I did experience that BEFORE the nearly dying thing happened. But weird altered states of consciousness are more of an example of psychosis than anything 'magical' (and it was the psychosis that also made me do something that made me nearly die). Of course I can FEEL LIKE weird shit is happening when I'm out of my fucking mind. And seen as my mind is my brain which is part of my body, of course I can have an out of body experience, when I'm out of my fucking mind. The point is that that experience doesn't represent anything accurate in actual reality (outside the reality of mere subjective experience). Silly beliefs about weird experiences still remain to be silly beliefs about weird experiences. The mistake is to draw false implications about non-subjective reality itself after that. Yes, your intrinsically weird experience was intrinsically weird if it really was, but your delusions about rather normal experience is not non-normal, and even if you're right about your experience being weird, it's still just a weird experience. There's no need for silly illogical false conclusions to be drawn. People on LSD can have weird experiences too, and people on LSD can draw false conclusions too. That doesn't make drugs magical. There is nothing extrinsically weird about intrinsically weird experiences. i.e. it is weird in and of itself (and the self itself can at times be weird), but it isn't for anything. There is no instrumental or purposeful or ultimate meaning that can rationally be drawn from such experiences. If there were I would have already found it because I'm fucking smart.

Almost drowned as a kid, I just went into a calm state laying still at the bottom of a pool and accepted my death.
Unless the acid trips are supposed to start way after that point, I can assume god or the angels or whatever were a bit busy with more important matters to come visit me there. Or I don't have a soul. But I'm not ginger so I should probably have a soul.

Anyway, NDE's are hallucinations.

The most commonly reported "near death experience" is lost time.  No experience at all.

(April 18, 2018 at 8:17 am)SaStrike Wrote: Anyway, NDE's are hallucinations.

Or delusions. If experiencing something normal but psychotically concluding that it was weirder than it was, can be considered part of the experience that is, or something.

It's all either delusion, illusion or hallucination. Or perhaps stuff like personality disorders in some case. Altered states of consciousness are very real but they don't imply or suggest anything... they're just weird experiences that don't actually mean anything. Depersonaization and self-splitting is real too, if we're talking experience, if we're talking that things can feel like or seem that way to the self... even if nothing like that is actually going on besides that self-seeming/consciousness.

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(April 18, 2018 at 7:51 am)robvalue Wrote: Yup, it will fail every single time under scientific conditions. If you put something high up where the patient can't see it, conscious or not, and then put them under so they can then "float up" and look at it, it will fail. I would put money in it, £100 from me against every £1 from you. Same deal if you decide to nearly kill them so they can have a NDE. That's pretty fucked up, though.

Yeah people are really stupid when they think magical experiences imply magical abilities.

And in a way, the fact experience is non-supernatural and doesn't imply anything really weird or ridiculous just makes magical experiences all the more 'magical' as experiences.

Makes me think of this quote for some reason:

Albert Einstein Wrote:There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is.

(April 18, 2018 at 8:21 am)Hammy Wrote:

(April 18, 2018 at 8:17 am)SaStrike Wrote: Anyway, NDE's are hallucinations.

Or delusions. If experiencing something normal but psychotically concluding that it was weirder than it was, can be considered part of the experience that is, or something.

It's all either delusion, illusion or hallucination. Or perhaps stuff like personality disorders in some case. Altered states of consciousness are very real but they don't imply or suggest anything... they're just weird experiences that don't actually mean anything. Depersonaization and self-splitting is real too, if we're talking experience, if we're talking that things can feel like or seem that way to the self... even if nothing like that is actually going on besides that self-seeming/consciousness.

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(April 18, 2018 at 7:51 am)robvalue Wrote: Yup, it will fail every single time under scientific conditions. If you put something high up where the patient can't see it, conscious or not, and then put them under so they can then "float up" and look at it, it will fail. I would put money in it, £100 from me against every £1 from you. Same deal if you decide to nearly kill them so they can have a NDE. That's pretty fucked up, though.

Yeah people are really stupid when they think magical experiences imply magical abilities.

And in a way, the fact experience is non-supernatural and doesn't imply anything really weird or ridiculous just makes magical experiences all the more 'magical' as experiences.

Makes me think of this quote for some reason:

Albert Einstein Wrote:There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is.

He lives Wrote:It is either happenstance (nothing is a miracle) or Intelligent design (miracle). I do not believe it will be long before OBE has been scientifically proven. There is a lot of research being done. Even if it is proven there will be those who will not believe. There are still people who believe that the earth is flat.

He lives Wrote:It is either happenstance (nothing is a miracle) or Intelligent design (miracle). I do not believe it will be long before OBE has been scientifically proven. There is a lot of research being done. Even if it is proven there will be those who will not believe. There are still people who believe that the earth is flat.

You know someone has no idea what they are talking about when they use phrases such as "scientifically proven".

(April 21, 2018 at 5:27 pm)Hammy Wrote:

He lives Wrote:It is either happenstance (nothing is a miracle) or Intelligent design (miracle). I do not believe it will be long before OBE has been scientifically proven. There is a lot of research being done. Even if it is proven there will be those who will not believe. There are still people who believe that the earth is flat.

You know someone has no idea what they are talking about when they use phrases such as "scientifically proven".

Proven under scientific conditions.

(April 18, 2018 at 8:20 am)Khemikal Wrote: The most commonly reported "near death experience" is lost time.  No experience at all.

Precisely what happened with me.  In 1987, I 'coded' for hat I was told was about eight seconds.  No light, no tunnel, not figure robed in white, no floating round the room - none of it.  I remember a feeling of intense pressure and waking up several days later, nothing in between.

Boru