(May 10, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 9, 2018 at 9:33 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Drich vs. Neo-Scholastic: Revelation - Observations or Allegories ?

why can't they be both?

Well for one thing, if you calculate the size of the Holy City literally according to the number of cubits, the top floors would be above the earth's atmosphere and it would be so massive that it would throw the entire earth off balance. So unless John was seeing some kind of George Jetson space tower, it seems more plausible to assume that John was providing a spiritual meaning by means of physical metaphors.
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are you talking about revelation 21?

In my bible it opens with:
 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared. Now there was no sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem,[a] coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband.

Clearly we are talking about a new place, a "new Heaven and a New Earth" this new earth has no sea. that does not describe Earth now. So then why can't the new city spire extended beyond the boundaries of the old earth?

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(May 10, 2018 at 5:51 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 4:41 pm)SteveII Wrote: Your question is malformed. No one deserves a pleasant afterlife. We have all sinned and fallen short. We all deserve separation from God. It is only by the free gift offered that we don't get what we deserve. The difference is that you implied you deserve a "lesser afterlife" because you are not a Christian. That is not the case and the difference has huge impact on the whole worldview.

I don't think anyone ultimately deserves anything be it good or bad.

But considering God knew that original sin was going to happen he condemned everyone knowingly anyway.

I mean, according to the Bible.

so?

He also provided reconciliation for all who simply wanted it enough to believe in it. That's the part you people always seem to forget.

Imagine a time of global starvation where a simple loaf of sliced bread is being sold for a week's to a month's wage 2500 to 4000 dollars.

Now imagine a person who could provide everyone with a loaf a day whether or not they had the means to pay for it. However He could not give it to them, As per store policy, they would have to take it. But rather than prosecute everyone as a thief this 'store own' wishes to honor his son who died percuring this bread. So then the own swore to provide clemency for all who seek it for ever (no matter how much bread they took.) If they simply asked him for it, by paying respect to the son.

but for everyone else who would ignore or spit on the image of his son he sought them out to be arrested. Now who's fault is it that you will be arrested if you stole the bread and did not seek forgiveness? After all option A was to simply pay your own way. No one made you take the bread, you could have paid for it yourself.

Yet all thieves cry the same sad song. blaming the store owner for the global price of the bread, rather than thankng him for finding a way to provide us with this bread even at such a high cost.

(May 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 4:35 pm)Drich Wrote: why can't they be both?

Well for one thing, if you calculate the size of the Holy City literally according to the number of cubits, the top floors would be above the earth's atmosphere and it would be so massive that it would throw the entire earth off balance. So unless John was seeing some kind of George Jetson space tower, it seems more plausible to assume that John was providing a spiritual meaning by means of physical metaphors.

are you talking about revelation 21?

In my bible it opens with:
 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared. Now there was no sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem,[a] coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband.

Clearly we are talking about a new place, a "new Heaven and a New Earth" this new earth has no sea. that does not describe Earth now. So then why can't the new city spire extended beyond the boundaries of the old earth?

You do realize that the question of whether there is a breathable atmosphere at a given height above the surface is directly related to how strong the force of gravity is, and the amount of atmosphere present, don't you?  If you increase those two to make life livable at the top, you end up making things unlivable at the bottom.

Maybe newcomer CDF47 would be interested in participating in the 'Our Role as Christian' thread. I'd be interested in seeing what other theists think of his or her approach.

Quote: You do realize that the question of whether there is a breathable atmosphere at a given height above the surface is directly related to how strong the force of gravity is, and the amount of atmosphere present, don't you?

Not a chance.  This is Dripshit you are talking about.  He thinks "magic" will solve any problem.

(May 11, 2018 at 1:25 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm)Drich Wrote: are you talking about revelation 21?

In my bible it opens with:
 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared. Now there was no sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem,[a] coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband.

Clearly we are talking about a new place, a "new Heaven and a New Earth" this new earth has no sea. that does not describe Earth now. So then why can't the new city spire extended beyond the boundaries of the old earth?

You do realize that the question of whether there is a breathable atmosphere at a given height above the surface is directly related to how strong the force of gravity is, and the amount of atmosphere present, don't you?  If you increase those two to make life livable at the top, you end up making things unlivable at the bottom.

Actually new earth would have to have less gravity and more atmosphere if we indeed needed to same no2 ratio after the resurrection.

This would take the pressure off at the bottom and volume to fill the upper levels.

but again who said post resurrection we need 14.7 psi with a 80:20 No2 ratio?

The fact that we have no sea on new earth has  bearing on the type of air and density It would be completely different there. No ocean mean far less humidity which has a direct impact on barometric readings. the current 14.7 psi we experience at sea level will be far less allowing for gas to go much higher up into the atmosphere

Gravity loses air density when the air is dry which is why the barometric readings go up/less air pressure. which in turn results into air being pushed up in very high thermal vents/lift miles and miles high of hot dry air shooting up from the surface. without any infusion of water in the air the air would go much higher as air density Meaning if there were no oceans there would be low barometric pressure which results in mid and upper atmosphere air quality increase.

Here's another thing... why not have the upper floors sealed and pressurized? we do this with planes, it is too hard to imagine a God able to utilize a man made technology? let alone allowing the ability to come up with something on his own?

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(May 11, 2018 at 1:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: You do realize that the question of whether there is a breathable atmosphere at a given height above the surface is directly related to how strong the force of gravity is, and the amount of atmosphere present, don't you?

Not a chance.  This is Dripshit you are talking about.  He thinks "magic" will solve any problem.

Awww yes the magic of a sealed and pressurized room, or simply less or more atmosphere (depending on how you look at it.)

(May 11, 2018 at 10:44 am)SteveII Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 9:46 am)vorlon13 Wrote: They're culpable for Original Sin.  

They can burn in hell for eternity for that alone.

Show me from the Bible where babies go to hell. Be thorough since you are asserting a serious doctrinal position (but not as serious as a Thursday crucifixion).

Romans 5
18 Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.

The verse is referring to Adam, btw, for our readers in Rio Linda in regards to 'trespass/condemnation' and the 'act of righteousness' is a reference to Jesus.

(May 11, 2018 at 7:07 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 10:44 am)SteveII Wrote: Show me from the Bible where babies go to hell. Be thorough since you are asserting a serious doctrinal position (but not as serious as a Thursday crucifixion).

Romans 5
18 Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.

The verse is referring to Adam, btw, for our readers in Rio Linda in regards to 'trespass/condemnation' and the 'act of righteousness' is a reference to Jesus.

Matthew 18:2-4 (KJV)

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.


If children were going to hell then why did Jesus tell us that we wouldn't enter Heaven unless we converted and became as little children? He finished by saying that whoever shall humble himself as a little child , the same is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.

No one believes children are going to Hell. Let's stop with the straws.

(May 11, 2018 at 2:26 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 1:25 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You do realize that the question of whether there is a breathable atmosphere at a given height above the surface is directly related to how strong the force of gravity is, and the amount of atmosphere present, don't you?  If you increase those two to make life livable at the top, you end up making things unlivable at the bottom.

Actually new earth would have to have less gravity and more atmosphere if we indeed needed to same no2 ratio after the resurrection.

This would take the pressure off at the bottom and volume to fill the upper levels.

but again who said post resurrection we need 14.7 psi with a 80:20 No2 ratio?

The fact that we have no sea on new earth has  bearing on the type of air and density It would be completely different there. No ocean mean far less humidity which has a direct impact on barometric readings. the current 14.7 psi we experience at sea level will be far less allowing for gas to go much higher up into the atmosphere

Gravity loses air density when the air is dry which is why the barometric readings go up/less air pressure. which in turn results into air being pushed up in very high thermal vents/lift miles and miles high of hot dry air shooting up from the surface. without any infusion of water in the air the air would go much higher as air density Meaning if there were no oceans there would be low barometric pressure which results in mid and upper atmosphere air quality increase.

Here's another thing... why not have the upper floors sealed and pressurized? we do this with planes, it is too hard to imagine a God able to utilize a man made technology? let alone allowing the ability to come up with something on his own?

---

(May 11, 2018 at 1:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Not a chance.  This is Dripshit you are talking about.  He thinks "magic" will solve any problem.

Awww yes the magic of a sealed and pressurized room, or simply less or more atmosphere (depending on how you look at it.)

You need to be in a sealed and padded room.  Just you and your fucking god.

(May 12, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No one believes children are going to Hell. Let's stop with the straws.

At what age do children stop getting a free pass? What's the biblical support for that?