(May 8, 2018 at 2:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The caliphate had been meddling in "the wests" affairs for centuries.  Their military expansion and political ratfucking was an existential threat.  This contributed to immense internal conflict in the west and eventually lead to western cristendom responding by exploiting peoples faith and launching a series of holy wars.  Sound familiar?

Ya don;t see me blaming muslims...or turkey, or the middle east, broadly.... for the fucking darks ages..though, lol.

You have a point.
Until this moment; I couldn't find a justification for the invasion of Spain that took place in the early Islamic age. Which began all of this.

(May 10, 2018 at 6:26 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: There are no "allies" strong enough to gain their favor in the region. Caring about allies is only taken into consideration by a secular government to gain interest back to the people under that government. The only interest I see for a western state to become allies with an Arab state, is oil and money.

Oil isn;t the only thing the ME has going for it.  Location location location.  That;s how turkey and isreal got loaded up with that sweet, sweet us arsenal.

Quote:11% is a big number in economy, you can picture what a city like New York would lose if 11% of the countrey's oil is gone. Moreover; you can count how many companies would close, yes America will not fall, but it will be damaged for a while.

Nothing would happen to new york. We have more oil..lol, we buy it from the middle east because they sell it cheap.  The umma really is powerless when it comes to the united states. Allah, it would seem..is with us.

Quote:Still; Saudies don't have the guts to commence such move, they don't even manufacture their own headscarfs. But anyways, oil is essential to the foreign policy of America that survives on the bloodsucking from other countries; no offense but the muscles of the marines directed Saddam Hussain to the rope when he didn't like the deal and wanted more.

Because it would hurt them, not us.  They need to sell it, we don;t need to buy it. I find that many people in the me's appraisal of the us is, essentially, stuck in the 70s. IDK if that;s due to old textbooks or new propaganda...but it;s a thing. I guess I wouldn;t really limit it to the me, either...the entire breadth of the formor ottoman empire has this current of thought in it - and I;ve put my boots on it from bosnia to bagdad.

Quote:I won't mention the centuries Ottomans spent ramming western & Russian armies in. Entering WW1 was a mistake and it came in a time the Ottoman Empire was "the old man of Europe"; defeating Ottomans wasn't an honor; it was a meant to happen. It was one of the weakest states in the world by that time; Russia didn't defeat the Ottomans of old.

When you're that weak, and so ignorant to the degree of banning typewriters because they are "haram"; then expect to be defeated by Russians in the North, and nomads in the south.

There's a phrase about every great empire being destroyed from the inside before it's conquered from the outside. They definitely weren't at their best. They;d fallen from their prior slave state greatness by the beginning of the 1800's. The ottomans of old were badasses..ofc, so was rome, and every other now defunct empire. Fuck man, the british used to be even bigger ballers than all of em. Those assholes conquered the entire world.

Edit: cleared my post after thinking that it might tend to derailing the thread. Carry on.

It;s nearly impossible to derail one of atlass' great satan themed threads. 

See, he thinks he;s the only true muslim in the world, but anyone who's read his posts could probably recognize that he actually worships at the altar of the Red, White, and Blue.  Even if he does conceptualized his american god as a bit of a villain and a tyrant. Why is the world the way it is today? America. When calamity occurs, who makes it? America. To whom do all heads bow? America. On and on. Historically, this sort of schema was reserved for the divine.

OFC, the recolonization of the me that could have happened hasn;t..probably by sheer luck, and that;s something to be happy about.
(if you really wanna have a westgasm, Atlass, google erik princes plan to privatize military forces and parcel up the desert)

In other news, those disgusting jews are mopping the floor with me powers yet again. So I guess it;s a mixed bag. The us didn;t turn the region into a giant plantation, but the isrealis still do whatever they want whenever they want.

What is wrong with supplementing our understanding of the Quran with the words of Mohammed and other contemporaries of the time? (i.e. the hadith)

It;s an interesting question.  The most credible supplementals are authenticated by the exact same process that produced the quran.  It would seem that any notion that the hadith are fundamentally dubious would wrap up the quran as well.

I also think that it would be difficult to conceptualize or contextualize what islam was or is without all of those contemporary documents doing and being exactly that.

(May 6, 2018 at 6:04 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I saw the topic of  Christian-only why-we're-here discussion 
and thought about giving an explanation and a story for my presence here, its reasons and my goals.

Other Muslim members can dearly explain why they're here; too.

I'm a Muslim individual living in the Middle East; I saw lots of failure and negativity on a cultural scale that led me from my youth to look to the outside for everything: from entertainment to language, of course I wasn't alone in this: most of my region is just like that.
Lifestyle becomes a mixture of religious practices, customs and habits imported from the outside, all I can say is that where I grew up there is no culture, what is there is the remains of what was once a culture, mixed with different religious affiliations.


Islam has no command center or a single leader; since the fall of the Ottoman Empire after World War 1, Muslims have been a defeated nation that holds so much anger alongside the bitterness of defeat. Nobody is more broken than a Muslim if you studied us carefully. It's an inferiority complex in its purest form: and inferiority complexes are usually masked by a thick layer of superiority complex.

Though; a broken person will be used. It's a must; who sees a broken person and resist the temptation of using them? you need to be a very good person not to use them, so a broken person will be used. And the defeated Muslims got used, sometimes by their own free will, sometimes by the hands of their own kin, sometimes by the hands of outsiders.

The religious institution though -in both its Sunni and Shiite forms- was one of the biggest abusers of the local populations: oppressing women, working as cutthroats for the local dictators and subduing the local population through drugging it with religious opium.

I'm here to change what outsiders think about the Middle East. I'm here to throw my hand against the dictators of my regions, and the religious institutions of the Middle East, and show people what the Quran really said.

good luck

Bump. Atlas, you never answered my question. Given that it is an important question in relation to your beliefs, I'm repeating it in hopes you'll answer it.

(May 10, 2018 at 1:06 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: What is wrong with supplementing our understanding of the Quran with the words of Mohammed and other contemporaries of the time?  (i.e. the hadith)

(May 10, 2018 at 10:11 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 6:26 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: But anyways, oil is essential to the foreign policy of America that survives on the bloodsucking from other countries; no offense but the muscles of the marines directed Saddam Hussain to the rope when he didn't like the deal and wanted more.

Because it would hurt them, not us.  They need to sell it, we don;t need to buy it.  I

Are you sure about that? America is used to having plentiful amounts of oil. It can no longer produce it in any great quantities but most people there still drive massive gas guzzling cars.Not to mention that you generally need to drive everywhere. This is from a European perspective anyway.

(May 16, 2018 at 2:32 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 10:11 am)Khemikal Wrote: Because it would hurt them, not us.  They need to sell it, we don;t need to buy it.  I

Are you sure about that? America is used to having plentiful amounts of oil. It can no longer produce it in any great quantities but most people there still drive massive gas guzzling cars.Not to mention that you generally need to drive everywhere. This is from a European perspective anyway.

I;m entirely certain of it.  That's just how the math breaks down.  The margins imported from the middle east are replaceable.  We buy it from them because they sell it cheaper than their competitors and cheaper than we could produce it.  Not because we couldn;t buy form their competitors (we're fucking rich) or that we couldn;t produce it (we have idle production).

The middle east is losing it;s economic influence long before a post oil world. Thats a part of the cause of all the unrest (and of islamic terrorism, for that matter). Though some islamists (like our buddy here) still cling to a past in which they were somehow the lifeblood of civilization in the west and could effect it...in the face of their growing irrelevance.

The ME needs to get right, quick...or they'll end up like the man who made the finest buggy whips in town.