Posts: 7677
Threads: 635
Joined: January 19, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 7:11 am
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 7:20 am by WinterHold.)
(June 3, 2018 at 1:33 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't know why Muslims would be worried about contradictions. There's a rule that says stuff written later trumps stuff written earlier when there's a contradiction.
This brings up the problem of who exactly is allowed to write stuff that counts, and when the deadline is, but these are already problems.
Contradictions prove that the text wasn't written by a God.
Quote:https://quran.com/4/82?translations=
Sahih International
Sura 4, The Quran:
(82) Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.
(June 3, 2018 at 1:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Uh huh. We get the same from Christians. Wonder why that is? Reminds me of the argument I presented to Atlas in another thread. Either the bible is true, which means the Quran isn't, or the bible is not true, and so the Quran in that case also isn't true. I believe Atlas' complaint was that we don't have the same bible they had in Mohammed's time. I think the evidence says otherwise. Hard to imagine the message of Christ's divinity was somehow 'invented' somewhere along the way.
Quote:https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-...nal-bible/
In order to answer these questions, let’s first decide what we mean by “the original Bible.” That phrase refers to the revelation that came from God to the human authors. They wrote down exactly what was revealed to them, using their own vocabulary and writing style. These messages from God came to some forty different people over the span of 1600 years! The concluding one, the book of Revelation, was given 2000 years ago around 100 AD.
Unfortunately, none of these original manuscripts exist today. Well over 3000 years have passed since Moses first penned the book of Genesis. None of his own writing has survived, but copies have been made down through the centuries.
The revelation is supposed to be taken from the prophet sent; not from 40 something different authors.
The book kept changing as the years go. The bible of old is not the bible of today.
Posts: 67670
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 7:28 am
Obviously, they don;t. Magic books are resilient like that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 7677
Threads: 635
Joined: January 19, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 7:32 am
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 7:42 am by WinterHold.)
(June 3, 2018 at 4:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (June 3, 2018 at 4:04 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Do you have specific chapters and verses to support that statement? Yes, I do. But I want when I present it, to be, a one on one debate. You willing to debate this with me?
Anything from outside this article?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_and_the_Bible
In other words; spread the evidence if you have it so people take the useful part from it, please. so no need for constraints, it's not a competition.
Posts: 10817
Threads: 15
Joined: September 9, 2011
Reputation:
118
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 9:27 am
(June 3, 2018 at 8:58 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (June 3, 2018 at 8:35 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: He literally just said that he didn't actually believe he taught you. Are you trying to seem stupid for some reason? I judge by contexts, not words and gestures alone.
That doesn't seem to be working great for you, IMHO.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Posts: 30555
Threads: 116
Joined: February 22, 2011
Reputation:
158
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 10:06 am
(June 4, 2018 at 7:11 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (June 3, 2018 at 1:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Uh huh. We get the same from Christians. Wonder why that is? Reminds me of the argument I presented to Atlas in another thread. Either the bible is true, which means the Quran isn't, or the bible is not true, and so the Quran in that case also isn't true. I believe Atlas' complaint was that we don't have the same bible they had in Mohammed's time. I think the evidence says otherwise. Hard to imagine the message of Christ's divinity was somehow 'invented' somewhere along the way.
Quote:https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-...nal-bible/
In order to answer these questions, let’s first decide what we mean by “the original Bible.” That phrase refers to the revelation that came from God to the human authors. They wrote down exactly what was revealed to them, using their own vocabulary and writing style. These messages from God came to some forty different people over the span of 1600 years! The concluding one, the book of Revelation, was given 2000 years ago around 100 AD.
Unfortunately, none of these original manuscripts exist today. Well over 3000 years have passed since Moses first penned the book of Genesis. None of his own writing has survived, but copies have been made down through the centuries.
The revelation is supposed to be taken from the prophet sent; not from 40 something different authors.
The book kept changing as the years go. The bible of old is not the bible of today.
Surah Al-Maeda 68: “Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injil and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of the most persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people.”
In other words you're saying that God, through Mohammed, was telling the Jews to hold fast to the content of books that no longer existed? That would make God something of a twat, don't you think?
Posts: 7677
Threads: 635
Joined: January 19, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 10:40 am
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 10:41 am by WinterHold.)
(June 4, 2018 at 10:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: (June 4, 2018 at 7:11 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The revelation is supposed to be taken from the prophet sent; not from 40 something different authors.
The book kept changing as the years go. The bible of old is not the bible of today.
Surah Al-Maeda 68: “Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injil and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of the most persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people.”
In other words you're saying that God, through Mohammed, was telling the Jews to hold fast to the content of books that no longer existed? That would make God something of a twat, don't you think?
Yes, he was.
If they reflected upon the original authentic Bible (Injil) and Torah, they'll know the difference between it and between the edited text they hold to be holy
Posts: 30555
Threads: 116
Joined: February 22, 2011
Reputation:
158
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 10:45 am
(June 4, 2018 at 10:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (June 4, 2018 at 10:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Surah Al-Maeda 68: “Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injil and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of the most persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people.”
In other words you're saying that God, through Mohammed, was telling the Jews to hold fast to the content of books that no longer existed? That would make God something of a twat, don't you think?
Yes, he was.
If they reflected upon the original authentic Bible (Injil) and Torah, they'll know the difference between it and between the edited text they hold to be holy
Your reply is ambiguous. Are you saying that God is something of a twat, or are you saying that God was telling the Jews to read and abide the content of nonexistent books?
Posts: 7677
Threads: 635
Joined: January 19, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 11:26 am
(June 4, 2018 at 10:45 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: (June 4, 2018 at 10:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Yes, he was.
If they reflected upon the original authentic Bible (Injil) and Torah, they'll know the difference between it and between the edited text they hold to be holy
Your reply is ambiguous. Are you saying that God is something of a twat, or are you saying that God was telling the Jews to read and abide the content of nonexistent books?
But in other spots in the Quran, it is mentioned that the Bible was revealed to Jesus; not 40 revelation receivers:
Quote:https://quran.com/5/46?translations=20
Sura 5, The Quran:
( 46 ) And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.
( 47 ) And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
( 48 ) And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
( 49 ) And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.
( 50 ) Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].
And also referred to the inclinations Christians and Jews commit which made their judgement unreliable and unauthentic. The original bible is something totally different than the collection of the 40 authors.
Posts: 67670
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 1:19 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 1:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 4, 2018 at 11:26 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: But in other spots in the Quran, it is mentioned that the Bible was revealed to Jesus; not 40 revelation receivers: That;s in the top ten of silly things magic book says. For narrative discontinuity, chronological idiocy..and, ofc, the fact that magic man is a character in another magic book.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: What is your problem with Islam? Think about it
June 4, 2018 at 1:22 pm
Khemikal, you know what I find ironic, is Muslims todays always prefer earlier sources of hadiths and history to later, but Quran picks the later gospels, not the earlier ones, and confirms a lot of the later gospels and way less popular.
If they are going to oppose hadith books because they are later sources then earlier contradictory hadith books, then Muslims are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
|
![[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/zf86M5L7/extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg)
