(June 4, 2018 at 11:51 am)Minimalist Wrote: Who is to say that mental pain is not every bit as real as physical pain?

There are people who are treated for years by shrinks and remain desperate.

It is a highly personal decision.

Having be suicidal myself and seeing as an escape route from the side-effects of medications for a large part of my life, I don't agree with this.

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By the way to me, suicide is murder, it's murder of your own life, but murder none the less.

(June 4, 2018 at 11:51 am)Minimalist Wrote: Who is to say that mental pain is not every bit as real as physical pain?

There are people who are treated for years by shrinks and remain desperate.

It is a highly personal decision.

I considered that myself when writing my post and I agree. I came to the conclusion that what was most important was whether there was potential for the standard of life to be improved. It's much easier to determine this in cases of terminal illness for example. But even though depression can be reversed, it can be take a very long time for a person to get better, if they ever do. As in, many years.

But it's not just that person's suffering that needs to be taken into account, but the suffering of those left behind grieving for the deceased. No one can really figure all that out. All we can do is be there to help when we see others suffering.

I might selfishly try to keep someone I wanted alive alive. But suicide to me fits in under the "my body, my choice." umbrella.

When I go the gym, I always carry everything in a D.I.F.D bag.

I believe we have to move to prevent such tragedies, not to promote them.

(June 4, 2018 at 11:53 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 11:51 am)Minimalist Wrote: Who is to say that mental pain is not every bit as real as physical pain?

There are people who are treated for years by shrinks and remain desperate.

It is a highly personal decision.

Having be suicidal myself and seeing as an escape route from the side-effects of medications for a large part of my life, I don't agree with this.

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By the way to me, suicide is murder, it's murder of your own life, but murder none the less.

No sorry, MK, having depression myself,  and having been suicidal myself, you have no clue what you are talking about. Your religion teaches you that, but that is not what PHD psychologists or psychiatrists call it.

People who kill themselves should not be equated to say robbers or rapists who murder their victims, it isn't even close to being equal. They are merely individuals in stress, which is not the same as the selfish murder of someone else.

I been through it.

It's not out of malice true, but out of despair.

Despair is a great evil and sin too, when there is no reason not to hold on to hope.

I always carry D.I.F.D who committed suicide. I don't say they are going to hell or anything like that, it's just that's a sad tragedy that is out of severe injustice to one's own self.

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(June 4, 2018 at 12:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 11:53 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Having be suicidal myself and seeing as an escape route from the side-effects of medications for a large part of my life, I don't agree with this.

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By the way to me, suicide is murder, it's murder of your own life, but murder none the less.

No sorry, MK, having depression myself,  and having been suicidal myself, you have no clue what you are talking about. Your religion teaches you that, but that is not what PHD psychologists or psychiatrists call it.

People who kill themselves should not be equated to say robbers or rapists who murder their victims, it isn't even close to being equal. They are merely individuals in stress, which is not the same as the selfish murder of someone else.

Rapists and murders often are people who think lowly of themselves, they hate themselves, etc, and hate what they do.

(June 4, 2018 at 12:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I been through it.

It's not out of malice true, but out of despair.

Despair is a great evil and sin too, when there is no reason not to hold on to hope.

No, depression isn't about despair, it is a electro/chemical imbalance in the brain which leads to feeling of despair. AND NO it is not evil, it is quite NORMAL. I didn't say desired, but normal. Your calling it evil is why humans with mental illness get stigmatized. An imperfect human body should NEVER be stigmatized. Your talk of "evil" is why those who suffer from it DONT get help. 

I do not like you calling  my condition "evil". My  brain is not controlled either by a magic super hero or a guy with a pitchfork. My condition is a result of my genes, my upbringing and my current electrochemical state of my brain. 

"Hope" isn't fostered by calling a condition evil. Hope is when you can trust others not to judge you for your condition.

Despair is not evil. People can’t even help it when they feel despair.

Right.  Religion is evil.

(June 4, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Losty Wrote: Despair is not evil. People can’t even help it when they feel despair.

We can help ourselves, and if we can't, God and his appointed guides of the past to the present, can help us.

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(June 4, 2018 at 12:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Right.  Religion is evil.

Why because it put's some responsibility to mental illness?

Most religious people are taking secular approach. I just don't buy it and in fact, one good reason for me to believe in religion was due to it's approach to mental health which is been forgotten and neglected in this century.

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(June 4, 2018 at 12:21 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 12:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I been through it.

It's not out of malice true, but out of despair.

Despair is a great evil and sin too, when there is no reason not to hold on to hope.

No, depression isn't about despair, it is a electro/chemical imbalance in the brain which leads to feeling of despair. AND NO it is not evil, it is quite NORMAL. I didn't say desired, but normal. Your calling it evil is why humans with mental illness get stigmatized. An imperfect human body should NEVER be stigmatized. Your talk of "evil" is why those who suffer from it DONT get help. 

I do not like you calling  my condition "evil". My  brain is not controlled either by a magic super hero or a guy with a pitchfork. My condition is a result of my genes, my upbringing and my current electrochemical state of my brain. 

"Hope" isn't fostered by calling a condition evil. Hope is when you can trust others not to judge you for your condition.

It becomes a chicken and egg thing, which came first. 

Anyways, anti-depressents can help if it's just taken as a like boost to a battery, but the person has to take the right steps.

And religion helps more to take the right steps more than any psychologist in my view.