You know nothing  mystic 

(June 4, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Losty Wrote: Despair is not evil. People can’t even help it when they feel despair.

Totally agree.  To insist that one is but another instance of the others just muddies the water.

I support both suicide prevention and assisted suicide.

(June 4, 2018 at 12:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I don't care whether they make it legal or not.

What is important to me is religious people keep the stigma and shame alive.

Without that, it will go out of control.

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(June 4, 2018 at 12:50 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: You needed assistance to get better, glad you found it. 

I don't think that stigma and shame enter the equation for most that make the attempt.

I had a plan. Simple. Just take all the meds in the bottle with grapefruit, and that would do it.

I never pulled it off because of the stigma. I know a lot of people who the idea won't cross their mind seriously and it's due to the stigma.

The stigma is good. It got us here where as in the past, there was no meds.

So, you didn't commit suicide because you were afraid of how you'd be viewed if you survived?

Maybe if you didn't feel stigma you'd be more likely to have gotten help? As stigma is one of the biggest reasons people don't get help for any mental illness.

Stigma has never made me less depressed. The times when I felt most like some kind of alien or outcast were usually the times that I felt worst. I don't think shame and self hate are productive here.

(June 4, 2018 at 4:11 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 12:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I don't care whether they make it legal or not.

What is important to me is religious people keep the stigma and shame alive.

Without that, it will go out of control.

---

I had a plan. Simple. Just take all the meds in the bottle with grapefruit, and that would do it.

I never pulled it off because of the stigma. I know a lot of people who the idea won't cross their mind seriously and it's due to the stigma.

The stigma is good. It got us here where as in the past, there was no meds.

So, you didn't commit suicide because you were afraid of how you'd be viewed if you survived?

Maybe if you didn't feel stigma you'd be more likely to have gotten help? As stigma is one of the biggest reasons people don't get help for any mental illness.

Stigma has never made me less depressed. The times when I felt most like some kind of alien or outcast were usually the times that I felt worst. I don't think shame and self hate are productive here.

What help would I have gotten seeking it from the mental health system? Are you sure the stigma was not a stronger assister in that regard?

(June 4, 2018 at 10:50 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So I know there are quite a few people here who have said that they support assisted suicide for any person who no longer wants to live, so long as they are an adult. The rationale is, a person has the right to end their life for any reason if they so choose, and there should therefore be a safe and painless options for them to do so. 

For those people, my question is, do you feel then that it is not appropriate to call 911 when a friend tells you they will kill themselves, since you are preventing them from doing something they have a right to do? Do you think we should lay off the whole suicide prevention thing, and just let people choose for themselves, and not make suicide into this thing we should prevent people from doing?

Did you start this thread as a result of a conversation with Hammy?

Quote:What help would I have gotten seeking it from the mental health system? Are you sure the stigma was not a stronger assister in that regard?

Again thank goodness your not a medical professional .

(June 4, 2018 at 4:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 4:11 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: So, you didn't commit suicide because you were afraid of how you'd be viewed if you survived?

Maybe if you didn't feel stigma you'd be more likely to have gotten help? As stigma is one of the biggest reasons people don't get help for any mental illness.

Stigma has never made me less depressed. The times when I felt most like some kind of alien or outcast were usually the times that I felt worst. I don't think shame and self hate are productive here.

What help would I have gotten seeking it from the mental health system? Are you sure the stigma was not a stronger assister in that regard?

It would depend on what drugs or therapy you'd already tried and what was or wasn't successful. I'm still not sure how stigma helped you. What stopped me before I ever got close was thinking about how much it would physically hurt and the likely result of having more physical or mental issues upon surviving failure. Also the people who would be hurt if I succeeded. I'm fortunate that I never got anywhere near getting past the point of being able to think about consequences.

I won't lie, the thought of waking up strapped down wasn't appealing either. But that's not really stigma.

So, what do you mean when you say stigma, and how did it help you? To me stigma is basically an unfair judgement, usually concerning character, about somebody who belongs to a marginalized group.

I can't imagine how feeling like some kind of freak gets you farther from killing yourself.

(June 4, 2018 at 4:23 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:What help would I have gotten seeking it from the mental health system? Are you sure the stigma was not a stronger assister in that regard?

Again thank goodness your not a medical professional .

No shit. I not only think of myself, but my sisters, and even my friend whom lives in Cyprus. I would never allow MK to give them mental health care advice.

Absolutely nobody using words like "stigma" and "evil" have any business giving others advice about mental health.

(June 4, 2018 at 4:26 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 4:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What help would I have gotten seeking it from the mental health system? Are you sure the stigma was not a stronger assister in that regard?

It would depend on what drugs or therapy you'd already tried and what was or wasn't successful. I'm still not sure how stigma helped you. What stopped me before I ever got close was thinking about how much it would physically hurt and the likely result of having more physical or mental issues upon surviving failure. Also the people who would be hurt if I succeeded. I'm fortunate that I never got anywhere near getting past the point of being able to think about consequences.

I won't lie, the thought of waking up strapped down wasn't appealing either. But that's not really stigma.

So, what do you mean when you say stigma, and how did it help you? To me stigma is basically an unfair judgement, usually concerning character, about somebody who belongs to a marginalized group.

I can't imagine how feeling like some kind of freak gets you farther from killing yourself.

I am human foremost, and all the shame non-mentally ill person would feel at the idea of it, I feel I should do....

In fact, I know the nature of my madness in particular better then anyone else but God and his witnesses/guides that are doors of light out the darkness.

I don't need people to imagine guilt for themselves if they think of the idea, but make excuses for me.   I want people to say, if weak gain strength, if lost, then find yourself, if confused, the seek clarity, if sad then seek happiness, if disappointed then seek achievement, etc...

I don't want people being confused by a label and wondering what kind of creature I am. I want them to look at me with the same human eyes they look at themselves.

If this makes me judgemental to people with my illness then so be it.