(July 3, 2018 at 9:16 pm)Alexmahone Wrote:

(July 3, 2018 at 5:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You know that prohibition against alcohol, MK?   I don't think it is helping in your case.

But take a moment to wonder what would happen if MK actually started drinking alcohol.

It couldn't hurt.

(July 3, 2018 at 9:21 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 3, 2018 at 5:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's quite simple, we over all believe with our mouths and for convenience of peace in this world and delusional thinking we are safe in the next.

If we truly believed in God and the last day,  if we truly believed in that being who are life should be devoted to, we would have devoted our lives to him with enough devotion to not have equated idols to God to the extent we disobey God to obey them.


The Quran for example says "therefore if you dispute regarding a matter so refer it to God and the Messenger if you believe in God and the last day" (4:59)and this pertained to what was obedience to God, and in that regard, it's not about whether we want to play basketball or soccer but matters of safety and fear, and regarding those who believe with their mouths and don't seek to perceive understand "and when a matter of safety or fear come to them, they spread it abroad, and had they referred it to the Messenger and (had they..) to those who possess the Authority from them, they would have known those who can perceive from them" and elsewhere said "therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know."

It takes a while to see it, but, it's a sad reality that God is to be searched with all our hearts yet many or even most people settle to deceive themselves "And from humans are those who say they believe in God and the last day, and they at all are not believers" 

"They desire to deceive God while (in reality) they deceive themselves."




God and morality is not such that it simply exists because of him, it's interlinked in that degree of goodness, is to degree of recognition of God. And truly recognition of God is a state, it's belief by choice, which actions can help, good actions help direct to that, but ultimately, it comes down to one good deed and one evil deed,   the good deed is to love sincerity to God to the extent we accept his pathways and doors to submitting to him and appreciating those guides as gifts from God, while the evil deed is mixing everything up, seeking to make ambiguous what is clear, and confuse people and ourselves-  out of love of God and the goodness in his creation, all good deeds stems and out jealousy towards his chosen and their followers, all evil stems.

To equate evil with good is to have forsaken good, and used good for the sake of evil.

Everywhere you use the word "God" reread this and replace it with "Harry Potter" and ask if what you just typed still makes sense.

This one made me LOL. 😂

Regarding the op, IMO and with all due respect,  perhaps it would be more efficacious to explore/understand disagreement/difference rather than default to the position of projecting one's thought patterns, beliefs, truths, etc., onto others and onto reality.  In my experience, the former course promotes open conversation, understanding, and safety, while the latter course kills dialog and opens the door to misunderstanding, one-sided mindsets, and hostility.

(July 3, 2018 at 10:26 pm)chimp3 Wrote: .... or which planet the aliens stored at Area 51 are from.

Mül.

(July 3, 2018 at 5:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's quite simple, we over all believe with our mouths and for convenience of peace in this world and delusional thinking we are safe in the next.

If we truly believed in God and the last day,  if we truly believed in that being who are life should be devoted to, we would have devoted our lives to him with enough devotion to not have equated idols to God to the extent we disobey God to obey them.


The Quran for example says "therefore if you dispute regarding a matter so refer it to God and the Messenger if you believe in God and the last day" (4:59)and this pertained to what was obedience to God, and in that regard, it's not about whether we want to play basketball or soccer but matters of safety and fear, and regarding those who believe with their mouths and don't seek to perceive understand "and when a matter of safety or fear come to them, they spread it abroad, and had they referred it to the Messenger and (had they..) to those who possess the Authority from them, they would have known those who can perceive from them" and elsewhere said "therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know."

It takes a while to see it, but, it's a sad reality that God is to be searched with all our hearts yet many or even most people settle to deceive themselves "And from humans are those who say they believe in God and the last day, and they at all are not believers" 

"They desire to deceive God while (in reality) they deceive themselves."




God and morality is not such that it simply exists because of him, it's interlinked in that degree of goodness, is to degree of recognition of God. And truly recognition of God is a state, it's belief by choice, which actions can help, good actions help direct to that, but ultimately, it comes down to one good deed and one evil deed,   the good deed is to love sincerity to God to the extent we accept his pathways and doors to submitting to him and appreciating those guides as gifts from God, while the evil deed is mixing everything up, seeking to make ambiguous what is clear, and confuse people and ourselves-  out of love of God and the goodness in his creation, all good deeds stems and out jealousy towards his chosen and their followers, all evil stems.

To equate evil with good is to have forsaken good, and used good for the sake of evil.

I will only address the title, given that and pardon my honesty, I did not understand any of the post.

The reason religions cannot agree is due to the fundamental cause of their existence. Religions exulist to exert power over others. An extraneous excuse to get one's fighting different people, killing murdering in the ne of their god.

I don't have a problem with believers. I do have a problem with preachers

They don't agree because religions don't have to meet any kind of testable standards. You can make up whatever you want.

(July 4, 2018 at 6:26 am)LastPoet Wrote: I will only address the title, given that and pardon my honesty, I did not understand any of the post.

The reason religions cannot agree is due to the fundamental cause of their existence. Religions exulist to exert power over others. An extraneous excuse to get one's fighting different people, killing murdering in the ne of their god.

I don't have a problem with believers. I do have a problem with preachers

Yeah, one religion when we have one political system. I.e., not any time soon.

Religions don't agree because there's an infinite number of ways to be wrong.

I cannot state this enough. There is no pragmatic way to get 7 billion humans all on the same religious/political page, even if we wanted to. 

Religion is a horrible way to conduct political diplomacy, even within the same confines of the same umbrella label between it's sub sects. Irish Protestants and Catholics do not see eye to eye. A black Baptist whom voted for Obama wont agree with a white Baptist whom voted for Trump. A Tibet Buddhist isn't going to think politically the same way as a Chinese Buddhist, and a Japanese Shinto Buddhist isn't going to agree with a Chinese Buddhist. The most pronounced divisions under the same umbrella label today are Sunnis and Shiites. But even liberal American Jew wont agree with a conservative Orthodox Israeli Jew.

I give religion a hard time here and elsewhere, not because one can get rid of it by force of government, to try would make anyone a monster. I do not give religion a hard time because I think all people who hold any religion are bad, no, I still hold that most humans in the world are very capable of non violence and compassion. I give religious logic a hard time because far too often it divides humanity and distracts us from understanding that we are NOT a separate species.

Our species was around long before any written religion. Our behaviors, both good and bad were also around before any written religion. Our behaviors have also been good and bad since humans started the age of written language. That says to me, that our behaviors are not coming from old writings or holy leaders, but have always been in us. 

I also cannot repeat this enough. I'll take an Ann Frank Jew, or a Martin Luther King Jr Christian, or a Malala Muslim, over any hate filled ignorant person using their writings to justify violence to others, or using it to deny scientific fact. But even with my unwavering support to liberal theists worldwide, understand while you may use your writings to justify empathy and compassion, there are other individuals and sects that ascribe to the same writings that interpret them to justify cruelty and dominance.

There is no such thing as a utopia for anyone, not even atheists. But we cannot be afraid as humans of questioning social norms, especially when it is a choice between a growing tent of more inclusion and non violence, or more otherism, division and cruelty. No matter what you hold as a position, our species still only has one planet to live on, and we all need resources and all want to feel safe and loved. 

I do hate myself. I hate bad logic. I hate violence. I hate religion being used to justify bigotry and oppression. I see far too much good in my species to allow the darker side of our behaviors to become such a critical mass as for to allow the atrocities of our species history to repeat.