Quote:All valid points and are part of a civil discussion. Here's the question, who has the right to redefine an institution that predates history itself? 5 people?

We as a society do it doesn't matter how old it is we have that right . But i ask by what right do get to define it to exclude gays? If you going to argue your god is the one doing the defining or tradition etc then your just appealing to ideology without any reason why anyone outside it should care .

(July 15, 2018 at 8:00 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:All valid points and are part of a civil discussion. Here's the question, who has the right to redefine an institution that predates history itself? 5 people?

We as a society do it doesn't matter how old it is we have that right . But i ask by what right do get to define it to exclude gays?

@steve.....

Yes, if it takes that. What right did a majority once have to own slaves? What right did a majority have to deny women the right to vote? If humans never questioned social norms our species wouldn't have left the caves. 




I could give a shit less if a majority wants to oppress a minority, it's wrong to treat LGBT as less than you. Your bigotry is not their baggage. They do not owe you submission.

Indeed the idea that tradition should dictate the definition of something is absurd

(July 15, 2018 at 8:26 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Indeed the idea that tradition should dictate the definition of something is absurd

The argument of tradition is the best defense of people who are benefiting most from that tradition. Everyone else just needs to conform, I guess. What right does the pot have to question the potter? When he doesn't fit the mold.

(July 15, 2018 at 1:42 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:First of all an adult is still their parents child (seeing how there is a designated age when kids become responsible adults), were clearly not talking about little kids.

Compared to the judo Christian god we would all be children 

Quote:Secondly, disobedience covers a broad range.

And none of that range equals exterminate a whole city because they allowed homosexuality .

Actually if you bothered reading the story you'd find they were a city full of rapists...

Quote:Actually if you bothered reading the story you'd find they were a city full of rapists...

Everyone in the whole city was a rapist? everyone ? and even if were the case once again how does that justify killing them all? Are you arguing we should murder rapists.And if gods so against rape why did spare lot when he offered his daughters to be raped by the mob? or killed lots daughters when they raped their own father ?

(July 15, 2018 at 8:42 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Actually if you bothered reading the story you'd find they were a city full of rapists...

Everyone in the whole city was a rapist? everyone ? and even if were the case once again how does that justify killing them all? Are you arguing we should murder rapists.And if gods so against rape why did spare lot when he offered his daughters to be raped by the mob? or killed lots daughters when they raped their own father ?

Better question, if god hates rape so much why not just stop people from raping? If I was in a position to stop a rape and decided to let the rape happen and then kill the person afterwards people would think of me as a monster. So why is it when god does it, the action suddenly becomes acceptable?

God gets a pass on being a hypocrite. "Do as I say, not as I do". Because if we all started acting like him, and killed anyone who ever slighted us, we would have wiped ourselves off the planet a long time ago.

(July 15, 2018 at 8:42 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Actually if you bothered reading the story you'd find they were a city full of rapists...

Everyone in the whole city was a rapist? everyone ? and even if were the case once again how does that justify killing them all? Are you arguing we should murder rapists.And if gods so against rape why did spare lot when he offered his daughters to be raped by the mob? or killed lots daughters when they raped their own father ?

That's the funny thing about OT god. If few hundred, or thousand, or million, that don't deserve to die get caught up in his rage-fests it's ok, you don't question. Kind of like Netanyahu and his bomb fests. In fact, maybe that's where he got the idea.

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(July 15, 2018 at 8:58 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(July 15, 2018 at 8:42 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Everyone in the whole city was a rapist? everyone ? and even if were the case once again how does that justify killing them all? Are you arguing we should murder rapists.And if gods so against rape why did spare lot when he offered his daughters to be raped by the mob? or killed lots daughters when they raped their own father ?

Better question, if god hates rape so much why not just stop people from raping? If I was in a position to stop a rape and decided to let the rape happen and then kill the person afterwards people would think of me as a monster. So why is it when god does it, the action suddenly becomes acceptable?

No no, you see god can't stop the rape, like secular law tries to do, because he would be much better at it. Everyone knows absolutely no rape would be a violation of free will...the same way secular law is, uh and that's obviously way too little rape.

He can't put prohibitions against rape in his sets of rules, because you know, you want people to have to interpret these things. Considering in OT law rape could net you a new wife, maybe NT God wanted there to still be just a little bit, you know, just the right amount.

(July 15, 2018 at 8:26 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Indeed the idea that tradition should dictate the definition of something is absurd

Yep, just because one could staple their nuts to the wall doesn't make it a good idea.