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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2018 at 4:59 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:No, not at all. The entire message is that God loves you enough to do this great thing.
That has nothing to do with intrinsic value.Nor is the thing he did great .
(by the way why do i keep getting the impression that people think intrinsic value is a western idea)
(August 2, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: "God so loved you that His only begotten son gave up a weekend for you." To save you from his incompetence
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 4:59 pm
Nope. Modern christians believe we have it, though...thus the need to reconcile this syncretism with the establishment legend of their faith. This plays itself out over and over, in every faith, in all of history.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:06 pm
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2018 at 5:37 pm by Angrboda.)
(August 2, 2018 at 4:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: Romans 3:19-26 English Standard Version (ESV)
19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being[a] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
You cannot get the view you posted out of Paul's writings.
This seems a confirmation of what I said, not a refutation of it. Perhaps the view that God loves us is some sort of consolation and we're supposed to rest our self-worth on that, but to say that one "cannot" get the other message out of Paul seems laughable and nothing more than stale apologetics.
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:10 pm
Being "dead in transgressions" and in need of "grace" seems explicitly pessimistic on the nature and value of man, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:20 pm
(August 2, 2018 at 5:10 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Being "dead in transgressions" and in need of "grace" seems explicitly pessimistic on the nature and value of man, lol. Indeed it teaches that people are broken and need a fixer or worst still some one to pity them . What a awful view of man .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:24 pm
Quote:Oh wearisome Condition of Humanity!
Born under one law, to another bound:
Vainly begot and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound:
What meaneth Nature by these diverse laws?
Passion and reason, self-division cause.
Is it the mark, or Majesty of Power
To make offences that it may forgive?
-Greville.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:41 pm
Paul teaches us that we're incomplete, and need another to give us self-worth. I can't imagine a more dehumanizing message.
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 2, 2018 at 5:44 pm
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2018 at 5:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 2, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Paul teaches us that we're incomplete, and need another to give us self-worth. I can't imagine a more dehumanizing message.
I-mine.
A self worth that..even with the addition of that other...leaves us in a state where we do not deserve what we will be gifted. I can;t hammer this home enough..but the idea that paul specifically or christianity in general underpin any modern -or- ancient notion of intrinsic value is absurd. Christian ideology is a full bodied rejection of the intrinsic value of man.
All we have from the camp that makes the claim is breathless repetition of "it's in there" followed by magic book inspired listicles that show otherwise.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 3, 2018 at 12:57 pm
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RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
August 3, 2018 at 1:06 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2018 at 1:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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