Quote:Okay.  I'll link dozens and dozens of images and video of Trudeau wearing beaded moccasins, doing native traditional dances, and so on.  Then you link the dozens and dozens of articles about all the wonderful think Trudeau's government has done for those impoverished reserves I was talking about.

The mere fact he's willing talk about the issue that has mostly been ignored and meet with native leaders who have been ignored is better then anything the supposed forces of Anti PC have collectively done or any government has done in decades.


The forces of Anti PC helping natives out ...oh wait no their just harassing
people at a native ceremony 

Still poor huh maybe the problem isn't about PC

---

Quote:Will you deny that Trudeau is for sure the most PC of all Prime Ministers who exist, ever existed, or probably COULD ever exist? Then tell me about the wonders he's done for you and the people you care about.

Still more then then the forces of Anti PC have done. At least he's willing to talk about it and meet with leaders and certainly not as bad as the supposed Non PC Prime Minsters  



If being Non PC means getting shit done then explain why collectively none of these guys fixed native poverty ?

 

---

Oh and Pro Tip if your going to use a graph to bash Trudeau please use one from a time period were he is actually PM not one from 2013.

Oh yeah? That's fine-- show me how wonderfully different those stats are now.

---

(August 22, 2018 at 12:27 am)Tizheruk Wrote: If being Non PC means getting shit done then explain why collectively none of these guys fixed native poverty ?

Did I say anything about non-PC? No. I'm talking about the hypocrisy of the PC Left, who talk a big game but in the end don't really seem to do that much.

1. Why don't you it was your error  not mine 

2.My point is that the PC Left  are doing more then their critics .By at the very least acknowledging and spreading the fact about the problem and meeting those effected and if being PC means not  doing anything then clearly that implies  Non means actually doing something clearly as the previous Prime Ministers demonstrate this is not the case and as my image of a group of proud boys who are proudly Anti PC  often the opposite . So i have a choice . 

A.People who have some willingness to at least talk about the issue talk about policies and meet those effected or in leadership  

B. People who do none of they above and in some cases the opposite and seem more interested in just bashing people who do .

Which group am i going to side with?

40 pages in, and we've gone from how the pc left is certainly ruining this or that to the notion that they aren't doing anything.  Maybe 40 pages from now we'll complain about how the pc left are doing good things, but not fast enough!

(August 22, 2018 at 6:34 am)Khemikal Wrote: 40 pages in, and we've gone from how the pc left is certainly ruining this or that to the notion that they aren't doing anything.  Maybe 40 pages from now we'll complain about how the pc left are doing good things, but not fast enough!

Nope.

Controlling thought, producing little.

At any rate, my beef isn't really with Trudeau; I'm sure he's relatively good compared to some of the asshole PC (progressive conservative, not the PC we've been talking about) parties have been.

---

(August 22, 2018 at 4:57 am)Tizheruk Wrote: 2.My point is that the PC Left  are doing more then their critics .By at the very least acknowledging and spreading the fact about the problem and meeting those effected and if being PC means not  doing anything then clearly that implies  Non means actually doing something clearly as the previous Prime Ministers demonstrate this is not the case and as my image of a group of proud boys who are proudly Anti PC  often the opposite . So i have a choice . 

I think all of this is fair enough.  I'm far from a fan of the Canadian right.  It's almost for sure thanks to those fuckers that I may have to fly back to Canada and fight tooth and fucking nail just to get her accepted into public school.

Let's be very clear, though.  I'm not right-oriented politically.  It is because we are specifically talking about the identity politics of the left that it comes through that way in this thread.

I'm against prejudice and stereotyping, and I'm especially against being told what is or isn't okay to say or even think.  I suppose because I'm a middle-aged white man, I'm very much more likely to have people on the left positioning against me than the right.  But the silence from the right makes me a little nervous-- do those assholes really accept me so easily as one of theirs?  Ewww.

Perhaps it's a simple difference of opinion?  I think that raising awareness of and working towards social justice qualifies as producing something, and I think it's of great value.  Any time the minimum wage goes up..that's a successful social justice initiative.  Anytime it becomes socially unacceptable to marginalize a group of people by spreading racial myths, the world is qualitatively improved by the pc left. 

I'm not really sure what the "controlling thought" bit is supposed to be.  It's not as if we're sending out brain altering waves from radio towers or turning frogs gay with chemicals in the water supply.  All advocacy is an attempt to change opinions.  Sometimes it produces discomfort in a subset of people.  That's unavoidable.  No one really enjoys confronting and acknowledging the inequality or injustice their society produces.  Meaningful change, either in our lives or in our perception.... has never gone unresisted.

I'm sorry that your against being told that it's not okay to think some shitty thing..but that doesn't mean that it's not okay. Plenty of people think that the plight of the inner city comes down to a lack of christian values and the dissolution of the divinely mandated family structure. Those people..being uncomfortable with being told that they are wrong and are thinking like an asshole..doesn't mean that they aren't wrong and thinking like an asshole. Their feelings of discomfort are irrelevant, and..frankly..childish in the context of a very real problem that goes beyond their hurt fee-fees.

Anecdotal, but in my experience...those same people don't really appreciate having their own language and rhetoric thrust back at them. Hence the neverending chorus of a hard knock life..for whites, toughen up bucko, and sort yourself out.

(August 22, 2018 at 7:06 am)Khemikal Wrote: Perhaps it's a simple difference of opinion?  I think that raising awareness of and working towards social justice qualifies as producing something, and I think it's of great value.  Any time the minimum wage goes up..that's a successful social justice initiative.  Anytime it becomes socially unacceptable to marginalize a group of people by spreading racial myths, the world is qualitatively improved by the pc left. 

eh.

Okay, first of all, minimum wage. As a small business owner in Korea, which has recently raised the minimum wage, I could shed a lot of light on that issue. There are clearly some who benefit, clearly some who lose out, and overall, things kind of settle down to a new equilibrium. But at least in Korea, I'm not sure that it has had the desired effect of bringing poorer people closer to the middle class. I'm sure whatever I say you'll just say, "Awww. . . so hard, poor white man" but that's your loss, since in this case I'm very familiar with some of the financial dynamics-- and there's real unrest in Korea now that the workers see losses in job stability, fewer full-time positions being offered, and so on.

I know there are some places where an increased minimum wage looks like a big win. I vaguely remember that Seattle or maybe San Fran had an increase, and it worked out well. However, I think if you tried to enforce a $15 minimum wage in Georgia, the economy would collapse in about a week. Some areas quite simply need to see more pie before people can be given a bigger piece.

Personally, I'd like to see heavy investment going to a really great quality of life, but in a more direct way-- a welfare system that actually makes people comfortable enough to build and chase dreams. But even then, I'm not sure if it would just lead to inflation and increased competition.

Second, for "marginalizing a group of people," dafuq you talking about? You are for sure the more racist person between you and me, and smugly and explicitly so. You just don't care, because you think you are on the correct side of the intolerance. But handouts and legislation against hurting people's feelings aren't the way. Much more important than that is proper investment in real infrastructure that matters-- new city projects, and so on.

I think we can agree on one thing, hopefully. I don't think restitution for black Americans because of slavery, etc. would be healthy. BUT I think injecting money that matters into poor areas would. In a way, it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, because so many of the poorest areas are mainly made of minorities. But treating it as an investment in growth and prosperity all over the country, rather than an entitlement based on demographic identity, might frame it as a joint project of proud Americans, rather than as a struggle between victor and victim, winner and loser.

And this is what Americans just can't get. For success, you need to find a way to a win-win scenario, not for each side to shout and bully each other into stupefaction. So long as you use divisive demographics, that is pretty much impossible. I think the biggest chance to end racism in America for sure can't come from either the PC left or the alt-right. My prediction is that it will be CHINA that gives everyone a chance to set aside differences and work toward a common goal-- building fucking bomb shelters.

There we have it, it's not that the pc left and their social justice warriors aren't doing anything, they're doing things you don't like..like working towards a living wage.

If a living wage would really "collapse the economy"...if the economy depends upon the exploitation of a disenfranchised subset..the economy is already collapsed.  It is not a valid economy for a representative democracy in which all men are afforded equal protection under law.  It's a plantation model of enrichment for the owners of human chattel by any other name.

OFC, it wouldn't actually collapse the economy, and a living wage is not a handout..so there's that. Poverty wages, otoh, -are- a handout, to the owners of men..at the expense of John Q Taxpayer.

(August 22, 2018 at 9:19 am)Khemikal Wrote: There we have it, it's not that the pc left and their social justice warriors aren't doing anything, they're doing things you don't like..like working towards a living wage.

If a living wage would really "collapse the economy"...if the economy depends upon the exploitation of a disenfranchised subset..the economy is already collapsed.  It is not a valid economy for a representative democracy in which all men are afforded equal protection under law.  It's a plantation model of enrichment for the owners of human chattel by any other name.

OFC, it wouldn't actually collapse the economy, and a living wage is not a handout..so there's that.  Poverty wages, otoh, -are- a handout, to the owners of men..at the expense of John Q Taxpayer.

Yay for you!  You are my hero!  You absolutely reek of fucking superiority and virtue!

Except you didn't read anything I fucking said.

Quote:I know there are some places where an increased minimum wage looks like a big win. I vaguely remember that Seattle or maybe San Fran had an increase, and it worked out well. However, I think if you tried to enforce a $15 minimum wage in Georgia, the economy would collapse in about a week. Some areas quite simply need to see more pie before people can be given a bigger piece.

Personally, I'd like to see heavy investment going to a really great quality of life, but in a more direct way-- a welfare system that actually makes people comfortable enough to build and chase dreams.

Pray tell, in what part of ANY of the post you just responded to did you find a springboard for your little fart-sniffing parade?

I've lost any patience for explaining to you why the disconnect between the things you say and reality causes you to think that I'm misrepresenting you or attacking your whiteness as the dirty, dirty racist I most assuredly am.

You'll either work it out for yourself..or you won't. My money's on the latter.

Do you know how big Georgias "pie" is, in billions USD? Are you aware of who's getting the biggest bite of it, or what percentage is told to lick the plate and say thank you? Might there be any glaring statistical blip as regards ethnicity in this relationship? Could there possibly be some historical and/or current reality behind all of this?

Let wonder lead you to knowledge.