(August 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 28, 2018 at 11:04 am)SteveII Wrote: 3. False analogy. God does not make decisions based on emotions. They are based on essential characteristics of love, justice, holiness, and mercy. As essential characteristics, one cannot be set aside when convenient. They all govern all the time. This is also the answer to whether God loves people in Hell. Yes, he loves all of his creation but it does not matter because there are other constraints in place. 

6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

Go ahead, divorce that whole story (Gen 6) from God's holiness/justice/love/mercy and make the case for 'emotions'.

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(August 28, 2018 at 11:53 am)Aroura Wrote:

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(August 28, 2018 at 11:33 am)SteveII Wrote: Your question is predicated on a person being unable to respond to God's love. First, it is far from clear whether God's love could not reach such as person. I have to imagine that if there was any healing that can happen, it is in relationship with God--who can satisfy the emotional and spiritual needs of a person better than any other. Second, I have always held that God judges based on your response to the information he has revealed to you. If a person is indeed broken, it is entirely the case God will judge them on what responses were possible--with no one knowing what responses were possible except God.

Thank you also for you very honest and candid response.  I find the issue I have is what I have highlighted.

If everything can change as soon as we die, what does your belief and my disbelief matter at all, right now, today?  If it all gets reset to 0 and we get the same exact chance after death, then I'm exactly as close to God as you are.

Also, if God takes your experiences away from you or alters you (or them) after death, are you you anymore?

I'm not sure why you highlighted that phrase. I am not abused and have no emotion damage so I can't know anything. I can infer that if God exists, he would be the best source of comfort for anyone who has been damaged and can help people emotionally, spiritually, even physically. 

I believe our memories and experiences will persist through death into the afterlife. I also believe that God has the ability to heal the scars of those experiences (presently or after death) so that while they are part of who we were and are, they do not define who we can become.

I'm not sure what difference rejection as opposed to a lack of belief would have.  I don't know about anybody else...but I've never tossed somebody into the pit for turning me down on a date, lol.

(August 28, 2018 at 1:21 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not sure why you highlighted that phrase. I am not abused and have no emotion damage so I can't know anything. I can infer that if God exists, he would be the best source of comfort for anyone who has been damaged and can help people emotionally, spiritually, even physically. 

I believe our memories and experiences will persist through death into the afterlife. I also believe that God has the ability to heal the scars of those experiences (presently or after death) so that while they are part of who we were and are, they do not define who we can become.

I highlighted that phrase because you don't know the answer.  You have to imagine. I just found it odd that you actually said it, typed it.  You don't know.  You have to imagine.
And yet, you must be quite certain of the answer you gave.  An impressive chain of beliefs.  

I simply find that disturbing, that you literally admit to having to basically make up an answer, when you also believe so very much (basically everything) rests on that answer.

(August 28, 2018 at 11:19 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Morality has a reality, and if you hate the reality, which is the fact it is God's light and so if you hate's true form, you hate all that is good.

Harry Potter.

(August 28, 2018 at 1:44 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(August 28, 2018 at 1:21 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not sure why you highlighted that phrase. I am not abused and have no emotion damage so I can't know anything. I can infer that if God exists, he would be the best source of comfort for anyone who has been damaged and can help people emotionally, spiritually, even physically. 

I believe our memories and experiences will persist through death into the afterlife. I also believe that God has the ability to heal the scars of those experiences (presently or after death) so that while they are part of who we were and are, they do not define who we can become.

I highlighted that phrase because you don't know the answer.  You have to imagine. I just found it odd that you actually said it, typed it.  You don't know.  You have to imagine.
And yet, you must be quite certain of the answer you gave.  An impressive chain of beliefs.  

I simply find that disturbing, that you literally admit to having to basically make up an answer, when you also believe so very much (basically everything) rests on that answer.

God's gonna magic it all away...but not in this life, and not it the next, either, if they're the wrong shade of lipstick. One of those moments where the proposed solution finds a way to be even more terrible than the problem.

(August 28, 2018 at 1:52 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 28, 2018 at 11:19 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Morality has a reality, and if you hate the reality, which is the fact it is God's light and so if you hate's true form, you hate all that is good.

Harry Potter.

Gee, and where do you suppose Rowling got it from? Why do we Westerners take so much of our intellectual and moral heritage for granted as if they always existed? The values and principles that inform our thinking did not spring up out of nowhere.

(August 28, 2018 at 1:44 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(August 28, 2018 at 1:21 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not sure why you highlighted that phrase. I am not abused and have no emotion damage so I can't know anything. I can infer that if God exists, he would be the best source of comfort for anyone who has been damaged and can help people emotionally, spiritually, even physically. 

I believe our memories and experiences will persist through death into the afterlife. I also believe that God has the ability to heal the scars of those experiences (presently or after death) so that while they are part of who we were and are, they do not define who we can become.

I highlighted that phrase because you don't know the answer.  You have to imagine. I just found it odd that you actually said it, typed it.  You don't know.  You have to imagine.
And yet, you must be quite certain of the answer you gave.  An impressive chain of beliefs.  

I simply find that disturbing, that you literally admit to having to basically make up an answer, when you also believe so very much (basically everything) rests on that answer.

What are you talking about? The fact that I am not emotionally scarred in no way means I don't have reasons for my beliefs nor just "make up an answer". There are Bible verses that speak about the peace available from God. Are they true? YES, I know many many people who have had terrible life experiences and have some measure of joy now thanks to God's grace and healing. There has got to be a million testimonies you can find to that effect. If my answer is unclear, ask me to clarify.

"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." ~ John 14:27

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." ~ Matthew 11:28-30

"He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak." ~ Isaiah 40:29

"Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them from their distress. He sent out his word and healed them; he rescued them from the grave. Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for mankind." ~ Psalms 107:19-21

"LORD my God, I called to you for help, and you healed me." ~ Psalms 30:2

"The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. Evil will slay the wicked; the foes of the righteous will be condemned. The LORD will rescue his servants; no one who takes refuge in him will be condemned." ~ Psalms 34:17-22

"Praise the LORD, my soul, and forget not all his benefits - who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion." ~ Psalms 103:2-4

"Have mercy on me, LORD, for I am faint; heal me, LORD, for my bones are in agony." ~ Psalms 6:2

"The LORD protects and preserves them— they are counted among the blessed in the land - he does not give them over to the desire of their foes. The LORD sustains them on their sickbed and restores them from their bed of illness." ~ Psalms 41:2-3

"I said, “Have mercy on me, LORD; heal me, for I have sinned against you." ~ Psalms 41:4

"He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds." ~ Psalms 147:3

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Then there are the people who write books and who's material we have used in our church: https://www.joycemeyer.org/everydayanswe...f-recovery

(August 28, 2018 at 1:21 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(August 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: 6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

Go ahead, divorce that whole story (Gen 6) from God's holiness/justice/love/mercy and make the case for 'emotions'.

When it comes to exegesis, Jor, demonstrates a surprising ability to completely miss the point.

(August 28, 2018 at 2:14 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Gee, and where do you suppose Rowling got it from? Why do we Westerners take so much of our intellectual and moral heritage for granted as if they always existed? The values and principles that inform our thinking did not spring up out of nowhere.

Forgetting that your religion is derivative, again? It always such a useless objection, as we all get all of the things from other places and come up with a few of our own and repurpose and reimagine, etc etc etc. It's kindoff the human enterprise, only made to seem paltry when some religious nutjob starts to imagine that their fictional god invented storytelling.

(August 28, 2018 at 1:30 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'm not sure what difference rejection as opposed to a lack of belief would have.  I don't know about anybody else...but I've never tossed somebody into the pit for turning me down on a date, lol.

You just beat up her brother instead.