(August 30, 2018 at 10:05 pm)bennyboy Wrote: You're almost there, but not quite.

We are talking about trends that extend through thousands of yours-- all these things we think are brand new, have played out over all of history and probably earlier.  Do you know that Barbarian is a derogatory term?  "Fucking Gallic idiots, the savages can't speak Latin, they just keep saying Bar Bar Bar over and over like fucking morons.  You think just because they fought against the Huns that they should be citizens of Rome?  Should they have the rights that were established by Romulus and by Zeus' thunderous cock?  Fuck that!"

The whole Old Testament is pretty much an Epic tale of demographic victimization-- the poor Jews under the thumb of their Egyptian oppressors.

Even chimps do this.  They invade neighboring troupes, even ones with actual blood relationships, and shred them to pieces.  You just know they're thinking "Those fucking monkeys keep trying to take our best bitches.  Who said they could cross the clearing into OUR side of the forest!?"

And here we have this deathgrip, this intolerant struggle between the hard left and the hard right, and it's really just pissed-off chimps with a better vocabulary.  It's people rushing to pick tribes, girding themselves against attack, and engaging in a struggle for the right to define the world.  I know you don't think that's what the PC left are doing-- but the Romans and even the chimps didn't know enough about evolution to see that rather than glorious winners, they were victim to their own instincts.

Now, the way to solve this is NOT to establish your rightness and make the other guy eat crow.  That's the caveman in you looking to conquer.  The way to solve the problem is to identify and transcend the real problem-- human instinct.  When people start going off emotionally, it means they've surrendered intellect to instinct, and we can then assume that the result will be the same shit that's gone on forever.  So when you have the PC Left, who make it pretty much their practice to get triggered and start raging, then though it's not obvious in one slice of time, that's where we're headed-- for the millionth time as a species.

The Real Problem™ of racism..Benny..is racism.  

Quote:So how do we transcend human instinct?  Only by logic.  Science.  Math.  Statistics.  And these do NOT thrive in a scenario in which the truth has been forced to give away to The Truth™.  We have to recognize that the tribalism comes from a lack of resources-- say what you want, but unless there really is enough productivity for us all to live in comfort, then those lines in the sand HAVE to be drawn, and there's always going to be winners and losers-- and pulling down the current king of the hill will only serve to press the reset button on the whole process.

I'm not sure what logic has to do with any of the many complaints of white victimization you've buttressed yourself with.  They aren't logical.  Nor is the "it's natural" argument - another fun and common normalizing response.  Nor is the notion that racism is due to a lack of resources, georgia raises it's ugly georgian head yet again. People are racists even when they have plenty. Hell, racism is fuckin profitable.

I'm not having any trouble transcending my own instincts on this count, so it seems like the solution just might be out there..and I'm willing to bet you back your million dollars that the answer isn't in accepting the perpetuation of racial myths, the acceptance of social injustice as..somehow, part of the natural fabric of the universe, or parroting white supremacist talking points. That's pretty much how we got here in the first place.

That you've managed to conceptualize comments about the stamps of our lowly origin as an argument -against- pc or sj....is fucking breathtaking..but, fwiw, yet another stamp showing the same.

(August 30, 2018 at 10:26 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The Real Problem™ of racism..Benny..is racism.  

You are saying that racism is intrinsically bad.

But let's play devil's advocate here. Let's say whites on the whole have deliberately oppressed black people on the whole-- enslaved them, raped them, and so on.

On what basis do you claim that it's a problem at all? I know why I think it's a problem-- but why do you think it is?

Jesus...fucking...christ.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't we?

(August 30, 2018 at 10:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Jesus...fucking...christ.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't we?

Predicted response noted.  You are shocked that I'm going to examine an issue that is obvious to everyone, and probably call me a Nazi.

That's fine.  Now, answer the question.  On what basis do you establish what should be considered right or wrong in the society?  Why shouldn't people in power fight to maintain their advantage?  Why should people with a history of slavery and poverty be given respect, or brought to equal status?

I have my answers.  What are yours?

Why are you always worried that you're a nazi?

(August 30, 2018 at 11:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Why are you always worried that you're a nazi?

I'm not, really.  You keep saying I'm carrying the alt-right script, and I'm now taking a position of inquiry  even more fundamental than we started.  So I would assume that your attempts to define me will be stronger, as well.

You and I both went to historicity and evolution at the same time, and yet we ended up using a very similar argument on opposite sides of the discussion.  Therefore, it really is necessary to get right to the root of it all-- how does society as a whole decide what is right or wrong, especially with regard to the rights of its members?

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(August 30, 2018 at 11:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Why are you always worried that you're a nazi?

I'm not, really.  You keep saying I'm carrying the alt-right script, and I'm now taking a position of inquiry  even more fundamental than we started.  So I would assume that your attempts to define me will be stronger, as well.

You and I both went to historicity and evolution at the same time, and yet we ended up using a very similar argument on opposite sides of the discussion.  Therefore, it really is necessary to get right to the root of it all-- how does society as a whole decide what is right or wrong, especially with regard to the rights of its members?

(August 30, 2018 at 11:15 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(August 30, 2018 at 11:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Why are you always worried that you're a nazi?

I'm not, really.  You keep saying I'm carrying the alt-right script, and I'm now taking a position of inquiry  even more fundamental than we started.  So I would assume that your attempts to define me will be stronger, as well.

Correction..I keep showing you that you're carrying the alt right script..and, that this script is deeply misinformed. You'll define yourself, whether you intend to or not..and whether or not this definition matches how you see yourself... simply by virtue of continuing to post your thoughts and positions.

Quote:You and I both went to historicity and evolution at the same time, and yet we ended up using a very similar argument on opposite sides of the discussion.  Therefore, it really is necessary to get right to the root of it all-- how does society as a whole decide what is right or wrong, especially with regard to the rights of its members?

You understand that I'm an american, I assume?  Justice and liberty for all?  Equal protection under law?  Nation of immigrants....that sort of thing?  I mean..sure, I would hope that anyone I'm talking to could agree to some moral framework or foundation for why racism, discrimination, and oppression are wrong (if there is no agreement, then there can be no discussion on moral grounds) - but I don't need it.  

It wasn't up to me to determine the contents of our national contract.

(August 30, 2018 at 11:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You understand that I'm an american, I assume?  Justice and liberty for all?  Equal protection under law?  Nation of immigrants....that sort of thing?  I mean..sure, I would hope that anyone I'm talking to could agree to some moral framework or foundation for why racism, discrimination, and oppression are wrong (if there is no agreement, then there can be no discussion on moral grounds) - but I don't need it.  

It wasn't up to me to determine the contents of our national contract.

Okay, so this is your basis? That the American constitution allows for equal protection under law, and that as an American citizen, it is in your interest to make sure that all other citizens are extended this protection? It's your expression of the idea of being American, right?

It wouldn't matter whether it was my idea of an expression of being an american.  Even if I was a bigoted dirtball who thought america was a white christian nation and so should trample on the gaygenda and put all the darkies in camps......

.....it would still be our law, our foundational and guiding principles as a nation...and it would still be in my best interest...even if I didn't realize it.

You know, I'm losing a little bit of my esteem for you right now.  This is some pretty silly shit. 

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Lemme give you a concrete example.  Did you know that we're trying to deport american citizens..right now?  As in, people born in the us 40 years ago.  Because brown.  It's ethnic cleansing, on a test bubble scale. We've done it before, too..we've deported a million(+) at a pop, a significant portion of which historians are certain must have been american. What's next..maybe they're not the proper shade of white? We've done that too. Maybe they're unproductive, undesirable....maybe they didn't vote for Dear Leader........?

If you can do it to one of us, you can do it to any of us.

(August 30, 2018 at 11:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You know, I'm losing a little bit of my esteem for you right now.  This is some pretty silly shit. 

I'm pretty unsurprised that you say that. However, before solving a problem, the first step should be to determine WHY it's a problem.

Quote:Lemme give you a concrete example.  Did you know that we're trying to deport american citizens..right now?  As in, people born in the us 40 years ago.  Because brown.  It's ethnic cleansing, on a test bubble scale.  We've done it before, too..we've deported millions at a pop, a significant portion of which historians are certain must have been american.  

If you can do it to one of us, you can do it to any of us.

Right, and that's the essence of the social contract-- you extend protections, because when you're in front of the firing squad, you will have a reasonable expectation that they'll stand up for you, too.

I think the insistent racism in the south very much stems very much from the fact that their participation in the social contract as outlined in the US constitution was made under duress-- they fought against that contract, lost, and the contract has been imposed on them, and enforced by the federal government. That broad demographic, i.e. those protected by citizenship, has changed very much in its makeup, and they have had no say in what changes should be made. That makes them feel robbed.

Would you say I've made a fair representation of their position?