(September 24, 2018 at 10:14 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: If God were to appear to everybody everywhere as unmistakably real, undoubtedly a few more people would believe in God and the redemption of Christ than do now.  Perhaps some who believe now would turn away, but it's more sensible to presume that more people who didn't previously turn to God then would do so than would turn away from him.  The consequence of those few turning toward God would result in eternal happiness for them.  The gains are thus infinite.  Moreover, Steve has repeatedly said that people who believe in God are more moral than those who don't.  So this is something that God could do which would be infinitely better for people as a whole, and which he chooses not to do.  So God is choosing a world that is infinitely worse than the one we could have.  How is a hidden God good again?

(September 24, 2018 at 8:02 am)robvalue Wrote: What is the greatest number in the set of real numbers 0<X<1?

There isn't one. Even when here, while we have a precisely defined meaning for "greater" and "greatest", and a precisely defined range to choose from, there is no answer.

Once you start talking about God being the "most moral being" or whatever other stuff you try to apply to it, you've taken huge steps away in terms of any sort of definition or coherence; to expect an answer to that, let alone one that actually means anything, is fanciful in my opinion.

God is a big imaginary blob of ill-defined concepts. It morphs into whatever the theist wants it to be, depending on the question, or depending on what excuse it needs making on its behalf.

(September 24, 2018 at 10:14 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: If God were to appear to everybody everywhere as unmistakably real, undoubtedly a few more people would believe in God and the redemption of Christ than do now.  Perhaps some who believe now would turn away, but it's more sensible to presume that more people who didn't previously turn to God then would do so than would turn away from him.  The consequence of those few turning toward God would result in eternal happiness for them.  The gains are thus infinite.  Moreover, Steve has repeatedly said that people who believe in God are more moral than those who don't.  So this is something that God could do which would be infinitely better for people as a whole, and which he chooses not to do.  So God is choosing a world that is infinitely worse than the one we could have.  How is a hidden God good again?

(September 24, 2018 at 11:36 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(September 24, 2018 at 10:14 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: If God were to appear to everybody everywhere as unmistakably real, undoubtedly a few more people would believe in God and the redemption of Christ than do now.  Perhaps some who believe now would turn away, but it's more sensible to presume that more people who didn't previously turn to God then would do so than would turn away from him.  The consequence of those few turning toward God would result in eternal happiness for them.  The gains are thus infinite.  Moreover, Steve has repeatedly said that people who believe in God are more moral than those who don't.  So this is something that God could do which would be infinitely better for people as a whole, and which he chooses not to do.  So God is choosing a world that is infinitely worse than the one we could have.  How is a hidden God good again?

Cue the ‘God doesn’t want to violate our free will’ argument.

Somehow, acknowledgement and worship doesn’t seem to count for Yahweh unless it’s performed by people who don’t have good, compelling reasons to do so. Slavish credulity, offered as an act of “freedom” is the ridiculous alleged bottom line.