Do you think this is a good statement to make? It seems to me like they are trying to prove themselves to religious people. Is it a response to religious people who think atheists are less moral? I would rather not dignify that. If you wanna address that argument then bring it to them but to use that as your motivation is low rent.

(September 28, 2018 at 5:34 pm)Bahana Wrote: Do you think this is a good statement to make? It seems to me like they are trying to prove themselves to religious people. Is it a response to religious people who think atheists are less moral? I would rather not dignify that. If you wanna address that argument then bring it to them but to use that as your motivation is low rent.

"I'm as good as every theist I've met despite not believing in a god or gods."  Too fucking long.

(September 28, 2018 at 5:34 pm)Bahana Wrote: Do you think this is a good statement to make? It seems to me like they are trying to prove themselves to religious people. Is it a response to religious people who think atheists are less moral? I would rather not dignify that. If you wanna address that argument then bring it to them but to use that as your motivation is low rent.

I find the phrase to be a perfectly legitimate shorthand response to a pair of idiotic claims that religionists make about atheists.

The first is that, without God in my life, I am somehow intrinsically unhappy, or even miserable. 'I'm good without God' simply seems to be a way of telling theists, 'I'm quite happy, thank you.  But God didn't do it.  I have work that challenges and fulfills me, a significant other who loves me, a gaggles of dear friends, and enough hobbies to keep me gleefully distracted.  Thank you so much for your interest in my welfare. Now, be a good lad and run along to church, I've got an art exhibit to get to.'

The other sense is that atheists cannot (as you intimated) be 'good' in a moral manner without God. The phrase in this case can be taken to mean, 'I feel that I'm kind, generous, moral, compassionate, and honest in my business dealings.  I try to hurt other people no more than can be helped, and I aid and console my friends who are in distress.  But God didn't make me this way:  I feel that it is an innate sense of all the elements that constitute "goodness" that make me what I am.   But - again - I thank you for your concern.  Please carry on with your petition drive to get these homeless bums off of our fair streets.  I've go to head over to the Oxfam sign-up event.'

Boru

I'm better than good without god.  I'm fucking great without that mythical anchor chain dragging me down.

Fuck all god-buggerers.

It's a bumper-sticker response to the claim that you can't have any morals if you don't believe in a god.  I'm not a big fan of the phrase because of the simplistic nature but on a t-shirt it can be an opening to a longer conversation so it has its place.

(September 28, 2018 at 6:06 pm)unfogged Wrote: It's a bumper-sticker response to the claim that you can't have any morals if you don't believe in a god.  I'm not a big fan of the phrase because of the simplistic nature but on a t-shirt it can be an opening to a longer conversation so it has its place.

My conversations with believers usually span the time it takes to read a bumper sticker. 

My current one says "Danger! I drive like you!"

What god??? Which god??? Who's god???

(September 28, 2018 at 5:34 pm)Bahana Wrote: Do you think this is a good statement to make? It seems to me like they are trying to prove themselves to religious people. Is it a response to religious people who think atheists are less moral? I would rather not dignify that. If you wanna address that argument then bring it to them but to use that as your motivation is low rent.

I don't make that statement.  I agree that "I'm good without god" is an outsider's plea for acceptance, and I don't feel the need to be inside the Christian club.  I grew up in that club and didn't like it much.  There were a lot of not-good people there.  

I tell the truth, keep my promises, obey my community's laws, and contribute to my community for pragmatic/social reasons, not in order to be considered good.

The idea that you cant be moral without religion is a bit too silly for me to bother responding to.

(September 28, 2018 at 7:01 pm)julep Wrote:   I agree that "I'm good without god" is an outsider's plea for acceptance, 

That's absurd.

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(September 28, 2018 at 7:06 pm)Aegon Wrote: The idea that you cant be moral without religion is a bit too silly for me to bother responding to.

It doesn't hurt to point out that you don't need clergy to know what's not moral. Some theists have never considered it any other way.