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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:26 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:19 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Not even that, lol. He's best known for his mastery of dodging questions when he feels like it's not in his favor to attempt to answer them. And he projects a lot.
What’s funny about this, is that I gave you the reasoning and principle that answered you question, and yet you claim I dodged the question.
Then I asked you a followup question for elaboration, which you refuse to answer. And you have a history of dodging challenging questions over and over again. When I say you're a master at dodging, I'm not talking just this thread.
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:38 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:26 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:19 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: What’s funny about this, is that I gave you the reasoning and principle that answered you question, and yet you claim I dodged the question.
Then I asked you a followup question for elaboration, which you refuse to answer. And you have a history of dodging challenging questions over and over again. When I say you're a master at dodging, I'm not talking just this thread.
If you have a challenging question that is on topic, I would suggest that you test out your theory on that. We where currently discussing if morality is objective. I try not to avoid challenging questions, but I do discriminate against questions that bounce around and are meant as little more than a red herring to distort the discussion. You guys seem to have a habit of changing the topic, when confronted with challenging questions, rather than a systematic thoughtful dialog. You then claim that people are dodging. When your responses are not related to something I said, but are about something else, then they tend to get ignored (just not for the reason that you imagine).
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 5, 2018 at 12:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'd be willing to bet that some amount of comments as to the subjectivity of moral systems are directed more toward the reality of some moral system in the real world. You're not really speaking with people who -don't- think that skullfucking a toddlers corpse is objectively wrong and bad, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:53 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'd be willing to bet that some amount of comments as to the subjectivity of moral systems are directed more toward the reality of some moral system in the real world. You're not really speaking with people who -don't- think that skullfucking a toddlers corpse is objectively wrong and bad, lol.
That is my point... however we can't really move forward as long as it is maintained, this is just a matter of opinion, or societal approval. We'll just end up back where we started, with them saying that such is subjective and dependent on the person.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:54 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'd be willing to bet that some amount of comments as to the subjectivity of moral systems are directed more toward the reality of some moral system in the real world. You're not really speaking with people who -don't- think that skullfucking a toddlers corpse is objectively wrong and bad, lol.
That is my point... however we can't really move forward as long as it is maintained, this is just a matter of opinion, or societal approval. We'll just end up back where we started, with them saying that such is subjective and dependent on the person.
In your case, that person is God, lol.
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:55 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:08 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Special pleading in 3..2.. 
Not even that, lol. He's best known for his mastery of dodging questions when he feels like it's not in his favor to attempt to answer them. And he projects a lot.
Ill make another prediction: If hes gonna adress this (at all), his special pleading will revolve around something he will call "gods nature". 
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 12:57 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 12:55 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Not even that, lol. He's best known for his mastery of dodging questions when he feels like it's not in his favor to attempt to answer them. And he projects a lot.
Ill make another prediction: If hes gonna adress this (at all), his special pleading will revolve around something he will call "gods nature".
Even if he did say that, it still wouldn't resolve neither the arbitrariness problem nor the independency problem of the Euthyphro Dilemma.
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: October 5, 2018 at 1:04 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 5, 2018 at 12:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'd be willing to bet that some amount of comments as to the subjectivity of moral systems are directed more toward the reality of some moral system in the real world. You're not really speaking with people who -don't- think that skullfucking a toddlers corpse is objectively wrong and bad, lol.
That is my point... however we can't really move forward as long as it is maintained, this is just a matter of opinion, or societal approval. We'll just end up back where we started, with them saying that such is subjective and dependent on the person.
Well, much of it -is- a matter of opinion, or societal approval.
You and I have no problem moving forward, though. We've agreed that the notion of an objective morality is a sensible concept.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 1:10 pm
(October 5, 2018 at 1:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (October 5, 2018 at 12:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: That is my point... however we can't really move forward as long as it is maintained, this is just a matter of opinion, or societal approval. We'll just end up back where we started, with them saying that such is subjective and dependent on the person.
Well, much of it -is- a matter of opinion, or societal approval.
You and I have no problem moving forward, though. We've agreed that the notion of an objective morality is a sensible concept.
Perhaps (and we've had discussion before, as I imagine we will again). But it gets confusing carrying on two different conversations at a time in the same thread. I mostly came in, to say that the moral argument is not saying that those who do not believe in God, cannot know or be moral. That's not what the argument is.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
October 5, 2018 at 1:33 pm
No, that's just something that many christians believe, lol.
Similarly, when they remark on the subjectivity of moral propositions they're not contending that their every moral position is, just...like..an opinion, man.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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