(October 7, 2018 at 10:42 am)Mathilda Wrote: Obviously not all of them. Some are just default Xtians who happen to have been raised in a country where Xtianity is the predominant religion. But I mean that ones who take it seriously. So many of them are full of hatred or ascribe this emotion to their god. God hates sin, homosexuals or anything or anyone not like them. Why is this?

We're all familiar with the concept of a hateful Muslim in the same way, and although evangelical Xtians don't threaten to cut heads off unbelievers, it's not much better as a woman when you hear how they want to remove your bodily autonomy. Or the insidious conditioning of children where they instil a fear of hell into them.

Yet each one of these hateful Xtians will claim that their religion and their god is one of love. The double speak is of 1984-esque proportions.

The only thing I can see that is common to many of the hateful Xtians is  lack of empathy.

1975 called and they want their christian stereotype back.


granted there is still hate but as with any group even with feminist or the most liberal of well intentioned douche bags there wells up a measure of hate. In the 70's hate was a big deal because the church was loosing the culture war. and those who seem to hate the most tended to struggle with the sin the hated the most. but when those people finally fell of the church bandwagon they became atheist... did they also drop their hate? no, they only refined it. now they hate the church for not helping them grow in grace and in mercy.

Hate my confused older lady is a human attribute, not specific to religion. granted people use religion to justify hate, but if the religion it'self in the bylaws condemns hate then it is not the religion that fosters hate it is the human. and again a human does not have to be apart of the church to 'hate.' many of you hate along just fine with no God insight. Such is the case of Christianity. Hate is what will cause a person to loose their own salvation. as taught by Christ in the parable of the unmerciful servant. Hate is tightly regulated and highly forbidden in Christianity where as Hate is mandated in islam.

But the funny thing to me is... you guys condone and protect islam. Mandated hate. mandated misogyny, mandated death to homosexuals and here you have the huevos to ask why do christians hate???

Show me one example where christians are in the bible commanded to hate.. There is a key word in that sentence, if you go outside of that key word parameter I will harshly rebuke your answer. so maybe study the challenge and see if any of those words pop out at you. don't be lazy or dense. also remember you can always concede the point.

(October 7, 2018 at 10:42 am)Mathilda Wrote: Obviously not all of them. Some are just default Xtians who happen to have been raised in a country where Xtianity is the predominant religion. But I mean that ones who take it seriously. So many of them are full of hatred or ascribe this emotion to their god. God hates sin, homosexuals or anything or anyone not like them. Why is this?

I chalk it up to the concept of everlasting punishment in Hell for nonbelievers.  Christians who believe in Hell have to make up reasons why it's justified, or else the God they worship is a monster.

(October 8, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Drich Wrote: Show me one example where christians are in the bible commanded to hate.. There is a key word in that sentence, if you go outside of that key word parameter I will harshly rebuke your answer. so maybe study the challenge and see if any of those words pop out at you. don't be lazy or dense. also remember you can always concede the point.

Luke 14:26 (NIV) Wrote:If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

This verse is often used by Christians to justify turning upon and/or casting out family members who violate the terms of faith in some way or other, especially by being gay or turning apostate.

(October 8, 2018 at 2:26 pm)Reltzik Wrote:

(October 8, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Drich Wrote: Show me one example where christians are in the bible commanded to hate.. There is a key word in that sentence, if you go outside of that key word parameter I will harshly rebuke your answer. so maybe study the challenge and see if any of those words pop out at you. don't be lazy or dense. also remember you can always concede the point.

Luke 14:26 (NIV) Wrote:If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

This verse is often used by Christians to justify turning upon and/or casting out family members who violate the terms of faith in some way or other, especially by being gay or turning apostate.

why do you douche bags quote from a dead dialect?

Oh that's right because you can make it say whatever you want.

What would happen if you read that verse in a plain modern english version?

25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus. He turned and spoke to them. He said, 26 “Anyone who comes to me must hate their father and mother. They must hate their wife and children. They must hate their brothers and sisters. And they must hate even their own life. Unless they do this, they can’t be my disciple. 27 Whoever doesn’t carry their cross and follow me can’t be my disciple.28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you sit down first and figure out how much it will cost? Then you will see whether you have enough money to finish it. 29 Suppose you start building and are not able to finish. Then everyone who sees what you have done will laugh at you. 30 They will say, ‘This person started to build but wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. And suppose he has 10,000 men, while the other has 20,000 coming against him. Won’t he first sit down and think about whether he can win? 32 And suppose he decides he can’t win. Then he will send some men to ask how peace can be made. He will do this while the other king is still far away. 33 In the same way, you must give up everything you have. Those of you who don’t cannot be my disciple.

Boo-ya-ka!
So rather than a command... We read sarcasm we read a warning. Jesus had a huge crowd of people following him. He knew for most they were they to be fed or entertained.. So he says If you follow me you must 'obviously' hate your family (because you have to sell everything and neglect them in favor of helping strangers.) and what's worse Die with him/take up your cross and follow me."

that is what counting the cost of building a tower or going to war is all about. Jesus is telling people to count all the costs before they make the commitment to follow him. think about your mother think about your father your husband your wife. what would happen if/when you die. you will have loved Jesus' hard life over the commitment you have already made. count the costs!

Not to hate people you cherry picking lazy/or bad person.

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(October 8, 2018 at 2:24 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:

(October 7, 2018 at 10:42 am)Mathilda Wrote: Obviously not all of them. Some are just default Xtians who happen to have been raised in a country where Xtianity is the predominant religion. But I mean that ones who take it seriously. So many of them are full of hatred or ascribe this emotion to their god. God hates sin, homosexuals or anything or anyone not like them. Why is this?

I chalk it up to the concept of everlasting punishment in Hell for nonbelievers.  Christians who believe in Hell have to make up reasons why it's justified, or else the God they worship is a monster.

book chapter and verse please.

Why is jesus such a lousy communicator that he needs a third-rate moron like you to explain himself, Dripshit.  I'd think a god could do better.  Certainly he could do better than you for a follower!

But then, only one of us believes in fucking gods.

(October 8, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Drich Wrote: why do you douche bags quote from a dead dialect?

Oh that's right because you can make it say whatever you want.

What would happen if you read that verse in a plain modern english version?

That was the New International Version, AS I INDICATED.

Before we go ANY FURTHER, please explain in what sense the NIV is "dead dialect", rather than "a plain modern english version".

And as you explain, bear in mind that the standard of civility you have set for a response includes the phrase "douche bags".

(October 8, 2018 at 2:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why is jesus such a lousy communicator that he needs a third-rate moron like you to explain himself, Dripshit.  I'd think a god could do better.  Certainly he could do better than you for a follower!

But then, only one of us believes in fucking gods.

that's the thing he doesn't. or rather he wouldn't if dishonest people like yourself would simply quote a proper measure of his own word. No where else in any organised academic study is it allow to 1/2 quote a passage, put your own twist on what was said then have one of you demand we give an accounting of your scrap book theology. No where is it allowed to quote 3 sentences of darwin then add 5 different thoughts of your own and represent that amalgamation as the complete work or words of darwin, yet this cherry picking is allowed to go on in your minds concerning the words and works as found in the bible.

In short God uses people like me to keep you people honest. other READ WHAT IS ON PAGE

(October 8, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Drich Wrote:

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(October 8, 2018 at 2:24 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: I chalk it up to the concept of everlasting punishment in Hell for nonbelievers.  Christians who believe in Hell have to make up reasons why it's justified, or else the God they worship is a monster.

book chapter and verse please.

Seriously?  You question whether Christians believe in Hell as a fitting punishment?

(October 8, 2018 at 2:56 pm)Reltzik Wrote:

(October 8, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Drich Wrote: why do you douche bags quote from a dead dialect?

Oh that's right because you can make it say whatever you want.

What would happen if you read that verse in a plain modern english version?

That was the New International Version, AS I INDICATED.

Before we go ANY FURTHER, please explain in what sense the NIV is "dead dialect", rather than "a plain modern english version".

And as you explain, bear in mind that the standard of civility you have set for a response includes the phrase "douche bags".

Sure.. 

Initially a dead dialect was to mean the use of KJV. However since you did use the NIV I can consider the use of 1/2 quotes as 'killing off the words of Christ.' I know several different translation use different words here. I did not know or did not remember the NIV using the archaic poetic interpretation because it uses a different source/uses a different codacee than the KJV does. I know it to use the same as the easy to read, as it is a rework of the world bible (simplfied for the deaf which means the principles are broken down much like the niv but further) and this is how that reads:
25 Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.

28 “If you wanted to build a building, you would first sit down and decide how much it would cost. You must see if you have enough money to finish the job. 29 If you don’t do that, you might begin the work, but you would not be able to finish. And if you could not finish it, everyone would laugh at you. 30 They would say, ‘This man began to build, but he was not able to finish.’

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(October 8, 2018 at 3:23 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:

(October 8, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Drich Wrote:

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book chapter and verse please.

Seriously?  You question whether Christians believe in Hell as a fitting punishment?

seriously.. Because nowhere in any bible does it say hell is eternal for us.

It says hell is eternal

It says Hell was created for satan to burn forever (not rule but to be punished in hell forever) 

Jesus Says the soul will be destroyed in Hell

Jesus says Hell is the second death

Jesus says we will be consumed by the fire..

No where does it say we will burn forever... That is mythos that surrounds the church and may have even been taught/is taught, but again not what the bible says. If you seek to worship the God of the bible or are will be punished by the God of the bible then it is by the bible that you will be redeemed or judged. not by what some preacher claims.

(October 8, 2018 at 3:23 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 8, 2018 at 2:56 pm)Reltzik Wrote: That was the New International Version, AS I INDICATED.

Before we go ANY FURTHER, please explain in what sense the NIV is "dead dialect", rather than "a plain modern english version".

And as you explain, bear in mind that the standard of civility you have set for a response includes the phrase "douche bags".

Sure.. 

Initially a dead dialect was to mean the use of KJV. However since you did use the NIV I can consider the use of 1/2 quotes as 'killing off the words of Christ.' I know several different translation use different words here. I did not know or did not remember the NIV using the archaic poetic interpretation because it uses a different source/uses a different codacee than the KJV does. I know it to use the same as the easy to read, as it is a rework of the world bible (simplfied for the deaf which means the principles are broken down much like the niv but further) and this is how that reads:
25 Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.

28 “If you wanted to build a building, you would first sit down and decide how much it would cost. You must see if you have enough money to finish the job. 29 If you don’t do that, you might begin the work, but you would not be able to finish. And if you could not finish it, everyone would laugh at you. 30 They would say, ‘This man began to build, but he was not able to finish.’

So to review:

For choosing to use a translation that was published less than half a century ago, was deliberately put together to use modern English (not a "thou" or "shalt" to be found) and is one of the most popular (and perhaps THE most popular) English translations today...

... and for quoting a verse in which Christians are told they must hate from the NIV in direct response to your challenge, rather than quoting from whichever translation you are employing... in an argument about Christianity generally, in which the role of the more popular translations in shaping Christian conduct are more applicable than the less-popular ones...

I am a douche bag -- your words -- quoting from a dead dialect -- your words -- and have done so not because it is one of the most rational translations to choose in this context, and also not because I'm only familiar with a few translations rather than having the vast familiarity of some sort of a Biblical sommelier, but rather because I am cherry-picking and must be trying to make it say whatever I want -- again, your words.

.....

...

.

Well, THIS is obviously a charming, rational, sensible individual who clearly has great value to contribute to the dialogue. It would definitely be very productive and not at all be a waste of time or source of constant frustration to engage with him.

*inaugurates his ignore list by adding a fucking douche bag to it*