(November 14, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Everena Wrote: I just stated what I envision God to be. I've thought so since I was 3 yrs old

It shows.

(November 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: Define natural in that context. A clear concise defintion. And intelligence was required for us to have the DNA the communicates in 2 languages and creates eyes that can see, ears that can hear, nose that can smell, arms that can hug, legs that can walk, and yes genitals that can orgasm and reproduce. How can you even pretend to think that all that could come about from nothing with no intelligence? And we have conscious self awareness and intelligence and emotions and no one can effectively explain why or how, unless there is an intelligent agent involved. Face it- God does exist.

Words, how do they work..and what -is- word..anyway? 

:jerkof:

For the purposes of our conversation, natural need only refer to what can be and has been accomplished without any need of a meat fairy.  Like the evolution of genitalia or the existence of a sex drive.  I keep telling you that I don't think that any of it came from nothing, so I don't know why you keep asking me...why I believe it all came from nothing?

Quote:Everena: Yes people died at a younger age, but when you believe in eternal life,  they just crossed over to a better place. Only atheists think death is bad,

I don't care where you think they went, or if you think the place they allegedly go is a better place, and no..people didn't just "die young"..they died of starvation..which is what we have been discussing.  Nor, for that matter, would it matter if they went to a better place.  If I hit you on the head with a brick and then hand you a lollipop, that won't change the fact that I have hit you on the head with a brick.  Similarly, your meat fairy intentionally starved us..allegedly, so that we could get a golden ticket to it's theme park in the sky. 

At least until we figured out how to entirely fuck up it;s divine plan, that is, lol.  Some design...some designer.

Quote:Everena: None of that matters and there is still plenty of wild food all over the world that tastes good. We are intelligent beings and so what if we made stuff taste better? We had to have the brains and the materials to do it with and those things are also provided by our amazing planet.

There is emphatically not plenty of wild food all over the world, let alone a bunch of it that tastes good.  I appreciate that you're trying to find a way to agree with me, now..but doing so utterly destroys your own previous arguments.  The fact that we have plenty to eat (when we have it) that tastes good (when it does)..is explained by our own intelligence, not meat fairies.  Do you understand?

Quote:Everena: I know what it is. I think a vegetarian diet is much better for you. However, the principles of surviving on naural foods that are less processed is also a positive health decision.

Your dietary opinions are irrelevant to the argument you fielded in support of a meat fairy.  If a vegetarian diet were better for us, one wonders why the meat fairy made us omnivorous, and why the meat fairy failed to provide us with vegetables.  

Quote:Everena: And we were able to do so with our planet provides, like I said before.

Insomuch as we've been able to, sure, and we still starve.  All of this, ultimately, due to the meat fairies intentions or oversights.  A cruel and cold intention, or oversight..of the sort you reject.  

Quote:Everena: Nope. And stop making up stupid shit.

You'll have to be more specific.

Quote:Everena: I have deist beliefs . This planet is our responsibilty and our challenge. We have the brains, we have the materials and resources. It is pretty obvious that WE are supposed to be fixing our own problems.

Here, at least, we agree with each other wholeheartedly.  That does not change the fact that you have presented demonstrably false arguments for your meat fairy which are inconsistent with your own beliefs and positions..stated in this thread.

Quote:Everena: Everything that is food and everything that we use to make food is natural to our planet. We tamper with food in many ways, and more we tamper with it, the less nutritious it becomes.

Define natural in context.

See how stupid that was.......?

Unfortunately, you have made another demonstrably false claim.  The items you mentioned earlier, berries nuts rice and taters, we tampered with initially.... just to make them edible.  They provided -no- nutritional value to us, as I've already explained to you..much of it was lethal to us before that tampering.  Consider the job of the early potato pioneer.  He or she had to test, by eating the tubers..which ones wouldn't kill them.  You can imagine what happened when they happened upon the wrong tubers as they improved the wild cultivars from something that killed them..to something that only made them sick (but kept them from starving) to something that did not make them sick, to something that was tasty, and then finally to something that was productive.

More recently, we have been tampering with our food to make it even more nutritious than we already have made it. Golden rice, for example.

Quote:Everena: And the point still stands and no one is eating us. Why do these plants and animals provide us with food that not only tastes good, but also provides us with nutrients to stay alive? You cannot just write that off to luck or chance.

This is not only historically untrue, it's untrue in the present.  There are creatures eating you...right now.  Again, these plants and animals that provide us with food and taste good have been specifically bred to do so and be so.......by us. 

I do not write it off to luck or chance, I only point out that your meat fairy does not get to claim credit..for example..for the work of those potato pioneers who risked their lives so that one day..you, a monumentally stupid and ungrateful person...could log onto these boards and shitpost about gods for however many pages until you give up or get better.

Quote:Everena: What the fuck is natural evil? There is no natural evil. People are evil sometimes and when they are intentionally evil, they suffer that pain back until they learn to be better people.

You should probably learn the terms upon which your own theology depends if you want to discuss it with people who do know those terms, and understand that theology far better than yourself.  People like me.  

Quote:Everena: God only created this flesh. God did not create our souls/true selves. Our true selves always have been and always will be and we are here because we need improvement.

Cool story.  If meat fairy created this flesh, and this world, then meat fairy created natural evil.  

Quote:Everena: The God Delusion is atheist propaganda. A Universe from Nothing is atheist propaganda. You get the idea

Never read it, and I don't believe that the universe came from nothing...so no amount of bitching about either thing, to me, is meaningful.  You need to learn a new routine.  

and...ofc....

-ya really need to learn to use the quote function..this shit is atrocious.

Somehow I doubt that Everena would be able to survive if dropped into the all-natural Amazonian rain forest without food.

(Rather than chance eating some poisonous plant, I'd probably cobble together a bow and arrow and bring down a bird or small mammal to roast and eat. Slightly better odds that way.)

-but only slightly..smell of blood and yummy caramelized fat and all. 

What you want, though, is a bunch of traps. Fuck that active hunting shit..the woodland creatures are better at getting away than we are at finding them. Grey squirrels will be the main source of protein after the z virus gets us.

(November 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Everena Wrote: And intelligence was required for us to have the DNA that communicates in 2 languages

WTF are you going on about now??

(November 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Everena Wrote: and creates eyes that can see, ears that can hear, nose that can smell, arms that can hug, legs that can walk, and yes genitals that can orgasm and reproduce. How can you even pretend to think that all that could come about from nothing with no intelligence? And we have conscious self awareness and intelligence and emotions and no one can effectively explain why or how, unless there is an intelligent agent involved.

It's easy for me because unlike you I understand evolution.

Also we have very good ideas about why we have consciousness, self awareness, intelligence and emotions. My own PhD and first post-doctoral position was spent explaining why we have emotions and how they work.

No creator required.

---

(November 14, 2018 at 2:35 pm)Astreja Wrote: Somehow I doubt that Everena would be able to survive if dropped into the all-natural Amazonian rain forest without food.

(Rather than chance eating some poisonous plant, I'd probably cobble together a bow and arrow and bring down a bird or small mammal to roast and eat.  Slightly better odds that way.)

I'd use the bow and arrow to kill and eat Everena while she was praying for help.

What ya want, for mankilling..is an atlatl.  Easier to manufacture, easier to use, much more lethal.

One wonders why the skin tailor made our meatsuits thusly... in the first place, but I digress.

(November 14, 2018 at 2:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: What ya want, for mankilling..is an atlatl.  Easier to manufacture, easier to use, much more lethal.

Useful to know. Thanks!

(November 14, 2018 at 10:13 am)unfogged Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:11 pm)Everena Wrote: As someone who has suffered through quite a bit of pain both as a child and as an adult, I would much rather have an explanation for the pain, rather than think it was just happening to me for no reason at all. And it has the benefit of a positive outcome as well.

What you wish to be true has no bearing on what is true.
Everena: And what you wish to be true has no bearing on what is true.

(November 13, 2018 at 4:35 pm)Everena Wrote: I am not ignorant and I am not the one pretending evolution is a first cause. Get over it. The first cause had to be intelligent period

Arguing from ignorance and/or incredulity is fallacious.  Actually, pretty much everything you post is fallacious.  I'd say you were exhibiting Dunning-Kruger but that would be insulting to people with limited understanding of the topics involved.

Everena: No, I was stating a fact followed by a logical assumption based on facts.

Quote:natural selection filters the changes that enhance survival from those that hinder it.  
Everena: Define natural in that context.

You say you understand evolution but need the "natural" in "natural selection" defined?  I really hope you are a troll or a bot because it would be amazing to see a real person who is that vacuous.
Everena: Strawman argument. If it you believe in it so much, you should be able to provide a concise definition. So go ahead. 

(November 13, 2018 at 4:54 pm)Everena Wrote: I said bigger than this planet so learn to read. And form and force is what I meant. (You know, like may the force be with you. lol)

A "force bigger than this planet" is a meaningless phrase; talking about  force in terms of physical size makes no sense.  Either way, just being "bigger than this planet" is effectively zero when compared to the universe; the limited scope of your vision is showing.
Everena: That part is just a belief and how I envision God.
Your argument so far boils down to "I don't understand how things could have happened therefore there must be a god that did it"
Everena: NO, it is that it is very clear and obvious to anyone who applies simple logic that higher intelligence was involved in the creation of this planet.

  You have no evidence for any of your beliefs,
Everena: The universe and all conscious life is evidence for our beliefs. You have no evidence that God doesn't exist.
just repeated assertions based on ignorance and incredulity.  I'd say your posts here have set theism back at least 200 years.  Good job.

(November 14, 2018 at 12:51 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I view god as fictional.

Have since I was eight.  And the only reason I believed is that I was taught to believe.

The god concept has to be taught.  It doesn't come naturally to people or kids.  I would expect it yo if this god being existed.

I have never believed, not for one second. 
I was sent to sunday school and thought that it was silly nonsense then, I was asked not to come back, I kept asking awkward questions.

Ughhh...could you at least quote properly? K.Thanks.