(November 18, 2018 at 11:50 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 11:46 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Or, fear makes you act irrationally and without respect for the consequences of your thoughts and actions...as it has in every one of your threads.  50/50

Undisciplined fear with misguided suspicions is bad.

 No shit, lol.   Terrified of the nature of your own existence, you go batshit about a moongod and suspect anyone who isn't quite as terrified and irrational as yourself to be either demons, sorcerors, or under the spell of the same.

Physician, heal thyself.

Quote:But out the two wings, hope and fear, fear is the greater of the two, because it protects and appreciates what we have, while hope seeks change for the better.  Even though fear and hope should be the same amount, the greater honor and what guards our souls, is fear. Hope is needed to keep fear to continue protecting what we have, it's like the fuel. But fear is the eyes of patience, it holds steadfast and guards by wisdom from swerving from the path.

Hope keeps one going and rewards the soul with richness and sufficiency, but it's not the central soldier of intelligence, goodness, and armies of light. That's patient type fear. The patient type fear that guards and continues to guard and won't swerve in that regard, and if it does swerve, will come back to the path quickly.

Hope doesn't have the power to create an existent god.  Wish in one hand, shit in the other.

(November 18, 2018 at 11:33 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 11:21 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: This is why there are so many threads littering the boards about this one idiotic argument.  MK never gets past the assertion phase.  Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. 

This is amusing, because, if we imagine some universe in which something like this argument can be made to be lucid, at least, some sort of commitment to that and to the argument and a continuing duiscussion of it, rather than fitful starting and stopping at the same point, would be required to arrive at this state of affairs.  I'm not sure that anyone who finds such an argument compelling, or has even an ounce of respect for the argument or whatever valid and plausible form it might be couched in, could be so careless and uninterested.

Is this argument or it;s conclusion valued, or is that another illusion?

And in the next thread about it he will claim that his premises have been “thoroughly argued” and shown to be true, when in fact the opposite is true; he retreats the moment anyone pushes him even a little.  What causes that kind of disconnect in a person’s brain?  For someone who blathers on about self-reflecting and clear understanding of the ‘accurate self’, he seems about as clueless as anyone could possibly be.

The mind is a powerful instrument, most critically when it is turned against itself.

(November 18, 2018 at 11:40 am)MysticKnight Wrote: LadyForCamus, if there is no way to getting to know our true selves mainly because there is no true self, then there is only misleading ways and all would be chasing the wind and it would be like seeking treasure at the end of the rainbow, there is nothing there.

For the umpteenth time, I agree with you. Now, your job is demonstrate how you have logically ruled this possibility out.  “I don’t like the thought of it” is not ruling it out using reason and evidence.  “I just know we have a true self” is not using reason and evidence to support that assertion’s truth.

Quote:That destroys the meaning of all actions, it destroys everything we hold dear.

False.  People create their own meaning all the time.

(November 18, 2018 at 12:13 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

Quote:That destroys the meaning of all actions, it destroys everything we hold dear.

False.  People create their own meaning all the time.

They create meaning but with belief that there is an objective value to who they are.  Take away that belief, and nothing is left.

It may or may not be properly basic, belief that we have an objective value and reality, I am not sure. I will have to reflect if it can be reduced.

It's like asking "Why love?" - well love itself knows the answer, and nothing else but love can justify it.

I will reflect and get back to you if it can be reduced further or all we can do is appeal to facts we know we don't believe and hence show we believe we have objective value by contradiction or reductio absurdum.

My true self is a globetrotting multibillionare. I only pretend to be poor so people will like me for me.

(November 18, 2018 at 11:40 am)MysticKnight Wrote: LadyForCamus, if there is no way to getting to know our true selves mainly because there is no true self, then there is only misleading ways and all would be chasing the wind and it would be like seeking treasure at the end of the rainbow, there is nothing there.  That destroys the meaning of all actions, it destroys everything we hold dear.

I went through two weeks where it seemed I was an illusion. 

We can keep discussing or move on, up to you.

False dichotomy. This mistake has already been pointed out to you. That you continue to make it shows that you don't learn from your mistakes. Largely because you don't want to learn from them. You prefer your special brand of ignorance and delusion to the truth, because your beliefs shield you from truths that you find unpleasant. And the worst part about it is that your fears themselves are not well justified. Many people fear that life is meaningless, but it's an open question whether it actually is or not, so jumping to the conclusion that it is, and from there jumping to embracing the warm comfort of a religious security blanket is simply compounding one error with another. Even if your arguments were not pure crap, we likely wouldn't trust them anyway because in everything you do you prove yourself to be a very foolish person.

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(November 18, 2018 at 11:48 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 11:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Fear.  Base, crippling, inescapable..fear. MK is completely terrified that there may be no "true version" of himself, and that..additionally, his life may be meaningless, that love..and by extension those who love him, those he loves, and his love for self, is ultimately rooted in folly.

To be fair to MK, most humans do not like thinking they are finite, it reminds them of their mortality. 

It's also worth pointing out that it is that fear which keeps us alive. If we didn't have that fear, none of us would be here. (addressed to Mystic)

So by insulating yourself from that fear, you are actually embracing death, not embracing love. Love cares about it's beloved and fears for it. What you have isn't love.

I think at heart you're just a romantic with a bunch of dreamy notions about love that are based in the Quran and the ignorance of youth. If real love bit you in the ass you wouldn't recognize it. Ask Camoo what love is. She has two children and a successful marriage. She knows. You don't. You're too busy chasing after whatever your peener points at.

If what you say about me is true Jo, than I hope God forgives me and changes me. If what you say is false and out of spite, I hope God forgives you and changes you.

(November 18, 2018 at 12:27 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If what you say about me is true Jo, than I hope God forgives me and changes me. If what you say is false and out of spite, I hope God forgives you and changes you.

It's not out of spite, I swear that on my mother's ashes. Just ask Camoo or Gae Bolga if you don't believe me.

(November 18, 2018 at 12:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 12:13 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: False.  People create their own meaning all the time.

They create meaning but with belief that there is an objective value to who they are.  Take away that belief, and nothing is left.

It may or may not be properly basic, belief that we have an objective value and reality, I am not sure. I will have to reflect if it can be reduced.

It's like asking "Why love?" - well love itself knows the answer, and nothing else but love can justify it.

I will reflect and get back to you if it can be reduced further or all we can do is appeal to facts we know we don't believe and hence show we believe we have objective value by contradiction or reductio absurdum.

I am not going any further in the discussion with you until you address my content below.  

Quote:For the umpteenth time,I agree with you. Now, your job is demonstrate how you have logically ruled this possibility [that there is no objective, true self] out.  “I don’t like the thought of it” is not ruling it out using reason and evidence.  “I just know we have a true self” is not using reason and evidence to support that assertion’s truth.

You haven’t earned the the right to go a step further in your argument until you address these two issues.  Stop trying to wiggle out of defending your assertions.

(November 18, 2018 at 12:30 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 12:27 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If what you say about me is true Jo, than I hope God forgives me and changes me. If what you say is false and out of spite, I hope God forgives you and changes you.

It's not out of spite, I swear that on my mother's ashes.  Just ask Camoo or Gae Bolga if you don't believe me.

It doesn't matter.  When you know God exists, only his perception of who you are matters. Judging by what people think of you will let chaotic winds break you apart.  I judge by Quran and Ahlulbayt, by the light brought down by God. 

Whatever I fail in that regard, I hope God forgives me, and whatever I accomplish and achieve in that regard, I hope through intercession of Muhamad and his family, that I be rewarded greatly, beyond what I deserve.

I don't care what you think of me for my own sake Jo, but only that, I am concerned by that you become further lost in your confusion.

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(November 18, 2018 at 12:33 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(November 18, 2018 at 12:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: They create meaning but with belief that there is an objective value to who they are.  Take away that belief, and nothing is left.

It may or may not be properly basic, belief that we have an objective value and reality, I am not sure. I will have to reflect if it can be reduced.

It's like asking "Why love?" - well love itself knows the answer, and nothing else but love can justify it.

I will reflect and get back to you if it can be reduced further or all we can do is appeal to facts we know we don't believe and hence show we believe we have objective value by contradiction or reductio absurdum.

I am not going any further in the discussion with you until you address my content below.  

Quote:For the umpteenth time,I agree with you. Now, your job is demonstrate how you have logically ruled this possibility [that we have no objective, true self] out.  “I don’t like the thought of it” is not ruling it out using reason and evidence.  “I just know we have a true self” is not using reason and evidence to support that assertion’s truth.

You haven’t earned the the right to go a step further in your argument until you address these two issues.  Stop trying to wiggle out of defending your assertions.

I am saying it perhaps is properly basic and all we can do is appeal to other proper basic facts that would contradict it. 

In fact, it seems the case knowing who you are, has to be properly basic vision. To know you objectively have an exact measured reality, perhaps, that cannot be reduced beyond a properly basic observation.