(November 17, 2018 at 10:00 pm)tackattack Wrote: I believe what the atheist argument for this one point is that it is immoral for an all loving creator to create hell. Is that correct?

It would be immoral for an asshole who hated everybody to build a lava cesspit with a slide into their themepark and watch while folks slide down. This isn't an "atheist argument", nor is it specific to any god, conception of god, or disposition of a god or any person. It's an uncontroversial notion that we find expressed from general ideas of responsibility all the way up to criminal law. People are responsible for what they do, and the harm that the things they do cause to others.

(November 17, 2018 at 10:00 pm)tackattack Wrote: I believe what the atheist argument for this one point is that it is immoral for an all loving creator to create hell. Is that correct?

The question of morality is secondary in that phrasing; an "all-loving" creator does not torture at all, nevermind setting up an eternal torture chamber.
Hell, as typically portrayed, is a completely unjust and immoral concept.

It seems like a lot of mainstream theologians are abandoning the whole idea of the "proprietary sacrifice". On WLC's calendar of events, Craig is attending seminars trying to defend the notion.

(November 17, 2018 at 1:09 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Most evil people usually think their actions are good. 

The irony in your statements is so palpable it hurts.

(November 17, 2018 at 12:47 am)KevinM1 Wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again: the notion of sin is idiotic.

Indeed. Sin is nothing more than a priestly construct invented for the purpose of controlling people through fear and guilt.

(November 16, 2018 at 3:49 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: What Jesus went through is horrible, if we presume it happened. But what about the eternal suffering of people who just survived for a few decades and were deemed as sinners by God. Jesus suffering is nothing in comparison to endless suffering.

Good lord people learn to seperate the bible and the god of the bible and religion. they are not one in the same. for instance where in the bible does it say we will be sent to hell to suffer forever?

the bible says hell is forever, the bible say satan will be sent there to be punished forever.. and that's it. when the bible speaks about us and hell it is always our second death or it says we will be consumed by hell. meaning eaten devoured obliterated... how long this takes... i guess is up to God, and the hardness of your hearts!

My heart is so hard right now.  I've got a raging heart-on.

(couldn't help it)

(November 19, 2018 at 10:44 am)Drich Wrote: Good lord people learn to seperate the bible and the god of the bible and religion. they are not one in the same. for instance where in the bible does it say we will be sent to hell to suffer forever?

Matthew 3
(10) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
(12) Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 5
(22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 7
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13
(38) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
(40) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
(42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18
(8) Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
(9) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 25
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I'm sure you have apologetics to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says but the plain reading is clear no matter how badly you want to deny it.

Magic book never means what it says or says what it means.  It means everything that everyone else says, except for all of the things that someone else means...simultaneously.  That's how we know it's magic.

You have to sift through alot of boxes of cracker jacks to get the decoder ring. Thankfully, they're on sale at every church.

Sorry I can't respond to every quote directly as it would be a much bigger wall of text than I care to type.
unfogged,
Matthew 25 v. 46, is the only verse that supports your presupposition regarding endless suffering. I believe one is enough and agree that there is everlasting suffering in Hellfire for those that sin against God.

gwaithmir,
Sin is nothing more than a priestly construct invented for the purpose of controlling people through fear and guilt if you don't believe in an objective moral authority, which a lot of people on here don't believe in objective morality.

everyone else who posted about hell being immoral,
By the act of creating beings with volition, it necessitates choice. If you had nothing to choose then it wouldn't really be a choice. Heaven being eternal, an equivocal choice would be an eternal lake of fire. If you believe in souls, either souls are eternal or not. If they are, then there's only 2 places to go after the universe passes away.
Bringing this back to the point, I suppose God could have created a slide with a pool and a parking lot. Would that have been less immoral?