(January 18, 2019 at 1:22 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 8:11 pm)Phoque Wrote: For the theists who are defending this, how would you feel if the same local government decided to pay for a trip to Mecca or host Divali ceremonies, but then not do the same for Easter or Christmas or Passover?

Would be fine if that's what they chose, but should also be willing to do it for Passover.  Same standard all around.

That's... that's kind of my point...

So you'd be fine with your taxpayer money going to any religious gathering? So you'd be fine with your taxpayer money going to a Annual Black X-Mass Show hosted by Karla LaVey? If so, at what point should they stop? Why not send delegates to every religious building or presentation or event? After all, if they're willing to send people to Ham's Ark museum, why not all the others?

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(January 17, 2019 at 8:21 pm)polymath257 Wrote:

(January 17, 2019 at 8:11 pm)Phoque Wrote: For the theists who are defending this, how would you feel if the same local government decided to pay for a trip to Mecca or host Divali ceremonies, but then not do the same for Easter or Christmas or Passover?

I was pondering the response to a government paying for a trip to the local Satanist statue. I doubt they would like that one.

In my experience, many theists say they're fine with it, but when something like this actually happens, they backpedal. It's like Catholics being fine with a Jehovah's Witness event or an Adventist saying Christmas is bad. Sure on paper they support it...

And now max is accusing people of communism because we maintain the government has no business promoting religion and spewing some twisted version of "freedom "

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Not a cent of public money should go to a religious organization or to the promotion of a religious institution . If the group wants to go to Ken Hams altar of ignorance they will pay for it themselves .

(January 18, 2019 at 6:03 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 5:28 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: No it's not.  The power belongs to the state.  We are a free state, but if you start surrendering your freedom, you'll end up surrendering it all, because there are people out there who will take it.

Please explain how in the fuck your response addresses my question in any coherent way.

I don't like accusing a poster of trolling because in a message forum, that determination is made by the forum staff. But now an admin has opined that you are a borderline-troll.

Answer my question, asshole! Do you understand why it is impermissible for the US government to weigh in on religion? This is the crux of this thread. Address this or bow out of the discussion.

Which means, what?  Someone has an opinion.  Okay, if they think free speech is trolling, then they can say whatever they like.  Don't bother me one way or another.  Or you can be an adult and address the matter at hand.  Stop crying.  That's the problem to begin with.  You act like a bunch of victims then cry at others for living life.  Well, go take your crybaby self to a communist country where they embrace atheism as a way of life.  That's not "trolling."  I'm telling you there's more for ya if that's your thing.  Enjoy.

Quote:
Which means, what?  Someone has an opinion.  Okay, if they think free speech is trolling, then they can say whatever they like.  Don't bother me one way or another.  Or you can be an adult and address the matter at hand.  Stop crying.  That's the problem to begin with.  You act like a bunch of victims then cry at others for living life.  Well, go take your crybaby self to a communist country where they embrace atheism as a way of life.  That's not "trolling."  I'm telling you there's more for ya if that's your thing.  Enjoy.

Nice way of completely dodging his point 

(January 18, 2019 at 7:00 pm)Amarok Wrote: And now max is accusing people of communism because we maintain the government has no business promoting religion and spewing some twisted version of "freedom "

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Not a cent of public money should go to a religious organization or to the promotion of a religious institution . If the group wants to go to Ken Hams altar of ignorance they will pay for it themselves .

You have no business telling everybody else what to think.  Bunch of me, me, me.  Go be happy atheists, go be friendly atheists, go be caring atheists, but if others don't want to be atheists, then let it go.  That's what the communists do.  They use atheism to censor people.   Well guess what, you may accept having your mind enslaved, but not I.

Never been to Ham's museum.  Never made plans to.  But if someone else wants to go, or even to an atheists gathering, then who cares?  Let them and MYOB.

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(January 18, 2019 at 8:20 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:
Which means, what?  Someone has an opinion.  Okay, if they think free speech is trolling, then they can say whatever they like.  Don't bother me one way or another.  Or you can be an adult and address the matter at hand.  Stop crying.  That's the problem to begin with.  You act like a bunch of victims then cry at others for living life.  Well, go take your crybaby self to a communist country where they embrace atheism as a way of life.  That's not "trolling."  I'm telling you there's more for ya if that's your thing.  Enjoy.

Nice way of completely dodging his point 

His point was boohoo.

Quote:His point was boohoo.

No it wasn't and you are simply being obtuse

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Quote:You have no business telling everybody else what to think.  Bunch of me, me, me.  Go be happy atheists, go be friendly atheists, go be caring atheists, but if others don't want to be atheists, then let it go.  That's what the communists do.  They use atheism to censor people.   Well guess what, you may accept having your mind enslaved, but not I.

So deranged rambling that doesn't address my point and more rambling about communism despite it not being so .

Quote:Never been to Ham's museum.  Never made plans to.  But if someone else wants to go, or even to an atheists gathering, then who cares?  Let them and MYOB.

Which has nothing to do with my point

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So max again misrepresenting other peoples positions on the barrier between church and state .

(January 18, 2019 at 8:25 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:His point was boohoo.

No it wasn't and you are simply being obtuse

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Quote:You have no business telling everybody else what to think.  Bunch of me, me, me.  Go be happy atheists, go be friendly atheists, go be caring atheists, but if others don't want to be atheists, then let it go.  That's what the communists do.  They use atheism to censor people.   Well guess what, you may accept having your mind enslaved, but not I.

So deranged rambling that doesn't address my point and more rambling about communism despite it not being so .

Quote:Never been to Ham's museum.  Never made plans to.  But if someone else wants to go, or even to an atheists gathering, then who cares?  Let them and MYOB.

Which has nothing to do with my point

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So max again misrepresenting other peoples positions on the barrier between church and state .

There is no barrier.  The church is part of the state, but there are different "churches."   So you are allowed to practice your beliefs as you choose.  Thomas Jefferson was actually very clear what he meant.  Things concerned religion are a matter between "Man and his God."  As such, the government can't discriminate against people for choosing what they want to believe.

The only one misrepresenting anything is you trying to invalidate the U.S. Constitution.  Why?  Who knows.  Guess you feel the need to fuss at people who don't agree with you.

Quote:There is no barrier.  The church is part of the state, but there are different "churches."   So you are allowed to practice your beliefs as you choose. 

No it's not 

Quote:Thomas Jefferson was actually very clear what he meant.  Things concerned religion are a matter between "Man and his God."  As such, the government can't discriminate against people for choosing what they want to believe.

Lol absurd 

Quote:The only one misrepresenting anything is you trying to invalidate the U.S. Constitution.  Why?  Who knows.  Guess you feel the need to fuss at people who don't agree with you.

And more bullshit

(January 18, 2019 at 8:18 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 6:03 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Please explain how in the fuck your response addresses my question in any coherent way.

I don't like accusing a poster of trolling because in a message forum, that determination is made by the forum staff. But now an admin has opined that you are a borderline-troll.

Answer my question, asshole! Do you understand why it is impermissible for the US government to weigh in on religion? This is the crux of this thread. Address this or bow out of the discussion.

Which means, what?  Someone has an opinion.  Okay, if they think free speech is trolling, then they can say whatever they like.  Don't bother me one way or another.  Or you can be an adult and address the matter at hand.  Stop crying.  That's the problem to begin with.  You act like a bunch of victims then cry at others for living life.  Well, go take your crybaby self to a communist country where they embrace atheism as a way of life.  That's not "trolling."  I'm telling you there's more for ya if that's your thing.  Enjoy.

Which means you are skirting the issue, fuckhead!

This thread is about a local government violating the First Amendment of the Constitution regarding separation of church and state. The reason for the First Amendment has been explained to you. Rather than discuss that, you have weaseled into straw man after straw man.

Discuss the issue or admit you are a worthless, fucking troll, wasting our time.

(January 18, 2019 at 8:58 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:

(January 18, 2019 at 8:18 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Which means, what?  Someone has an opinion.  Okay, if they think free speech is trolling, then they can say whatever they like.  Don't bother me one way or another.  Or you can be an adult and address the matter at hand.  Stop crying.  That's the problem to begin with.  You act like a bunch of victims then cry at others for living life.  Well, go take your crybaby self to a communist country where they embrace atheism as a way of life.  That's not "trolling."  I'm telling you there's more for ya if that's your thing.  Enjoy.

Which means you are skirting the issue, fuckhead!

This thread is about a local government violating the First Amendment of the Constitution regarding separation of church and state. The reason for the First Amendment has been explained to you. Rather than discuss that, you have weaseled into straw man after straw man.

Discuss the issue or admit you are a worthless, fucking troll, wasting our time.

Oh no the constitution apparently says America is multi church theocracy . Rather then a secular republic. And the church not having the power to use the state to dictate things or show favoritism to a single sect is communism (though it's not) . Rather then simply keeping the government out of religion and religion out of the functions of government .THAT"S FREEDOM !!!!

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Again if the group wants to go to hams house of absurdity they can get their without using our tax dollars or our public schools . If there church wants to take them there all power to them .

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Max's delusion of secularism . If you stop publicly funded organization from promoting a specific ideology that's using atheism to censor people and communism

Reality. No ones saying no one can go there if they want . If a church or private religious group wants to go there by all means . But public school taking impressionable kids to a institute with a clear religious agenda.Nope nope nope .

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Oh and let's just ignore Jefferson himself practiced the separation by not calling for national prayer or thanksgiving . Because he realized he's secular figure not a religious one . And has no business doing this .