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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 6:52 am
(April 14, 2019 at 8:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: (April 14, 2019 at 6:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You don't think religious people should have access to your court system? This is the equivalent of saying the laws don't apply to religious people. That's kind of stupid.
Boru Seems to me that if they want the benefit of the courts they should have to pay their fair share of taxes to help support the justice system.
Just a thought.
In a sense, by not paying taxes, churches are indeed paying their 'fair share' - they are paying what the law requires. Atheists may not like it (I certainly don't), but they aren't doing anything illegal or unfair: they are paying what the law requires. That it happens to be nothing (in most cases) doesn't make it unfair.
Would you extend that restriction to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place? If you get a tax refund, should that curtail your legal rights?
Boru
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 8:00 am
(April 15, 2019 at 6:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (April 14, 2019 at 8:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Seems to me that if they want the benefit of the courts they should have to pay their fair share of taxes to help support the justice system.
Just a thought.
In a sense, by not paying taxes, churches are indeed paying their 'fair share' - they are paying what the law requires. Atheists may not like it (I certainly don't), but they aren't doing anything illegal or unfair: they are paying what the law requires. That it happens to be nothing (in most cases) doesn't make it unfair.
Would you extend that restriction to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place? If you get a tax refund, should that curtail your legal rights?
Boru
How old are you?
A tax refund isn' t a gift. It' s you getting back what you overpaid in taxes.
So did you not know that or was that simply the worst comparrison you' ve ever made?
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 8:06 am
(April 15, 2019 at 8:00 am)onlinebiker Wrote: (April 15, 2019 at 6:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In a sense, by not paying taxes, churches are indeed paying their 'fair share' - they are paying what the law requires. Atheists may not like it (I certainly don't), but they aren't doing anything illegal or unfair: they are paying what the law requires. That it happens to be nothing (in most cases) doesn't make it unfair.
Would you extend that restriction to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place? If you get a tax refund, should that curtail your legal rights?
Boru
How old are you?
A tax refund isn' t a gift. It' s you getting back what you overpaid in taxes.
So did you not know that or was that simply the worst comparrison you' ve ever made?
I'm 49.
Who said it was a gift?
I've made worse comparrisons [sic].
But you miss the point entirely. Should access to justice be determined by how much or how little one pays in taxes? You seemed to think it was a good idea when applied to churches, how about to people? If we lived in the same country and I paid more tax than you, should I get better access to the court system?
Boru
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:12 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:47 am by Lemon Curry.)
Religtardology is a business and it's fuckin' BIG business.
Those at the top of the respective religtard food chains sell salvation for which the recipient pays.
The cat licker crutch, er church, is the richest entity on the planet. The church of England isn't far behind. The dumb twat, justin welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, once castigated pay day lenders in the UK for charging such excessive fees and for causing borrowers to end up in spiralling debt. It transpired, a few days later, that the church of England was a major shareholder in the holding company of a major UK pay day lender (Wonga).
peter popoff, the televangalist, was collecting almost $4 million per year in the late 1980s, according to James Randi. In 2003, his ministry received over $9.6 million, and in 2005, over $23 million. In that year, he and his wife were paid a combined salary of nearly $1 million, while two of his children received over $180,000 each. Financial data is not available for Popoff's ministry after 2005 because Peter Popoff Ministries changed from a for-profit business to a religious organization, making it tax-exempt. Popoff purchased a home in Bradbury, California, for $4.5 million in 2007. He drives a Porsche and a .
Tax the churches, They are businesses regardless of their claims otherwise.
I don't know whether I need a bottle in front of me or a frontal lobotomy. 
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:41 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 15, 2019 at 6:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In a sense, by not paying taxes, churches are indeed paying their 'fair share' - they are paying what the law requires. Atheists may not like it (I certainly don't), but they aren't doing anything illegal or unfair: they are paying what the law requires. That it happens to be nothing (in most cases) doesn't make it unfair.
Would you extend that restriction to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place? If you get a tax refund, should that curtail your legal rights?
Boru
Not quite the case in the US. That tax status comes with strings attached, and american churches routinely break their end of the agreement. As the majority of churches operate, they disqualify themselves. It's just not something that there's any political will to push.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:46 am
(April 15, 2019 at 9:41 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: (April 15, 2019 at 6:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In a sense, by not paying taxes, churches are indeed paying their 'fair share' - they are paying what the law requires. Atheists may not like it (I certainly don't), but they aren't doing anything illegal or unfair: they are paying what the law requires. That it happens to be nothing (in most cases) doesn't make it unfair.
Would you extend that restriction to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes in the first place? If you get a tax refund, should that curtail your legal rights?
Boru
Not quite the case in the US. That tax status comes with strings attached, and american churches routinely break their end of the agreement. As the majority of churches operate, they disqualify themselves. It's just not something that there's any political will to push.
Fair enough. If I use tax dodges to avoid paying my fair share of taxes, should I have fewer legal rights than someone else?
Boru
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:48 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(April 15, 2019 at 9:12 am)Lemon Curry Wrote: Religtardology is a business and it's fuckin' BIG business.
Those at the top of the respective religtard food chains sell salvation for which the recipient pays.
The cat licker crutch, er church, is the richest entity on the planet. The church of England isn't far behind. The dumb twat, justin welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, once castigated pay day lenders in the UK for charging such excessive fees and for causing borrowers to end up in spiralling debt. It transpired, a few days later, that the church of England was a major shareholder in the holding company of a major UK pay day lender (Wonga).
peter popoff, the televangalist, was collecting almost $4 million per year in the late 1980s, according to James Randi. In 2003, his ministry received over $9.6 million, and in 2005, over $23 million. In that year, he and his wife were paid a combined salary of nearly $1 million, while two of his children received over $180,000 each. Financial data is not available for Popoff's ministry after 2005 because Peter Popoff Ministries changed from a for-profit business to a religious organization, making it tax-exempt. Popoff purchased a home in Bradbury, California, for $4.5 million in 2007. He drives a Porsche and a .[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff#cite_note-44][/url]
Tax the churches, They are businesses regardless of their claims otherwise.
Not really the point. The argument isn't about whether churches should be taxed (and I agree that they should) but whether not paying tax limits their access to the justice system.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
No. ofc not..but I will say this- For most of us..if we were engaged in tax fraud, having the state involved in resolving our property disputes would be the very last thing we wanted, lol.
I don't think that Biker was making any argument about whether or not they pay taxes or that not paying taxes means they can't go to court, only that they may be looking for the state to adjudicate a sectarian squabble.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:51 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:53 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(April 15, 2019 at 9:48 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: No. ofc not..but I will say this- For most of us..if we were engaged in tax fraud, having the state involved in resolving our property disputes would be the very last thing we wanted, lol.
Sorry, trouble with the language. 'Tax dodge' isn't the same as 'tax fraud'. The term means more taking advantage of loopholes.
It's not a sectarian squabble. It's a real estate squabble. The fact that one religious group is taking another religious group to court doesn't matter.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Church forcing State involvement?
April 15, 2019 at 9:52 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2019 at 9:52 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The loopholes comes with strings attached, american churches commonly break their end of that bargain. Its fraud.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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