(April 29, 2019 at 10:54 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit.

The split between the parties in the U.S. is so wide, they can't even agree on the facts anymore.

I for one will never vote for a Republican as long as they generally deny climate change. That one difference between the parties is more than enough for me.

(April 29, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 10:54 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit.

The split between the parties in the U.S. is so wide, they can't even agree on the facts anymore.

I for one will never vote for a Republican as long as they generally deny climate change.  That one difference between the parties is more than enough for me.

Um no, only one party is the bigger liar, and not simply white lies, but dangerous lies. Especially global warming denial like you said. But also the GOP lies about where the most undocumented workers stem from, which is people overstaying legal visas. They also lie about where drugs are coming in from, which are the vast majority at legal ports of entry. The GOP lies about our opiate epidemic which is a direct result of drug companies over prescribing them to the point users, when they run out, turn to street opiates. 

The GOP lies about our economy booming, which ignores the fact that all billionaires do with their tax breaks is pad the pockets of CEOs and shareholders through a "buyback" scam, and still use overseas tax shelters on top of entire corporations paying no tax at all as well as still shipping jobs overseas despite getting tax breaks and or paying no tax. The GOP lies about tax breaks benefiting workers when the reality is billionaire tax breaks add up over a decade and eventually the bill comes due and tax payers end up having to bail them out.

Dems as voters gave up when Reagan successfully deregulated and busted unions. Our voter apathy in local and state elections and midterms in that 40 years has allowed the GOP to gerrymander and make it almost impossible to win in districts that swing voters and liberals should dominate in. That in turn forces our politicians to play their game. 

Now again, if dems would stop infighting, and stop sticking to our old haunts, and expand our map, and focus every day, every election and think long term, we can win.

Brian, your response to Thoreauvian makes no sense. You say “no” and argue with him on a point you clearly agree with him on.

(April 29, 2019 at 5:37 pm)Losty Wrote: Brian, your response to Thoreauvian makes no sense. You say “no” and argue with him on a point you clearly agree with him on.

You must be new here.

(April 29, 2019 at 5:39 pm)Jackalope Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 5:37 pm)Losty Wrote: Brian, your response to Thoreauvian makes no sense. You say “no” and argue with him on a point you clearly agree with him on.

You must be new here.

Lol. I just figured if we start pointing it out more often maybe he’ll work on actually reading posts before responding to them 😝

(April 29, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 10:54 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit.

The split between the parties in the U.S. is so wide, they can't even agree on the facts anymore.

I for one will never vote for a Republican as long as they generally deny climate change.  That one difference between the parties is more than enough for me.

It doesn't matter what facts they agree on.

They both serve the same masters. Appealing to the liberal or conservative ideologies/populations is only done out of necessity. I vote Democrat, too, but it doesn't do as much good as I'd like.

I'm not saying our votes are worthless. I'm just saying that actually addressing climate change is more important than electing people who agree with a fact that pretty much any educated person acknowledges is true. How low are we setting the bar here?

The Republicans aren't the source of the problem. They're just opportunists. And they wouldn't have an opportunity to sell their climate denial schtick in a country with a robust and accessible education system.

"The two parties are the same!"

"You got hit in the head with a metal baseball bat? I got hit in the head with a plastic baseball bat! Same thing! We both got hit in the head by baseball bats!"

The pubs think they are in power now and get to re-write history. That's the way it's been. 

Wait for your turn.

(April 29, 2019 at 8:42 pm)wyzas Wrote: The pubs think they are in power now and get to re-write history. That's the way it's been. 

Wait for your turn.

The dogmatic have short memories.  However, not everyone is dogmatic.

(April 29, 2019 at 6:00 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: The split between the parties in the U.S. is so wide, they can't even agree on the facts anymore.

I for one will never vote for a Republican as long as they generally deny climate change.  That one difference between the parties is more than enough for me.

It doesn't matter what facts they agree on.

They both serve the same masters. Appealing to the liberal or conservative ideologies/populations is only done out of necessity. I vote Democrat, too, but it doesn't do as much good as I'd like.

I'm not saying our votes are worthless. I'm just saying that actually addressing climate change is more important than electing people who agree with a fact that pretty much any educated person acknowledges is true. How low are we setting the bar here?

The Republicans aren't the source of the problem. They're just opportunists. And they wouldn't have an opportunity to sell their climate denial schtick in a country with a robust and accessible education system.

Greed will always seek power, that is not a political party issue, that is a human quality in our evolution. There is greed and lust for power worldwide. 

Go back and read the history I told you about.

We had a time for a while that helped build our middle class. Unfortunately it took a great depression to wake us up. And over time we forgot about it, and  Reagan went back to the bad policies that favored the top. Since then the gap between the top and bottom has exploded. But for you to say both serve the same master is absurd. It is still up to US as voters to be that pressure to make that change. 

Our democratic politicians would have more power and do what voters wanted if we were active in local, state, and midterms and thought long term in all 50 states. The GOP has been dominated for the past 40 years because that is what they do. Our politicians are not serving a master, they are hostages, and part of that reason is that we don't compete well with the GOP in a consistent long term manor.

But sorry, now is not the time to squabble and give Trump 4 more years. We lose we get nothing. We win, then we have a far better shot.