(August 30, 2019 at 7:47 pm)Denverguy Wrote:

(August 30, 2019 at 6:33 pm)Mermaid Wrote: It's rude and self-serving to assert your beliefs on them. Let them pray. Ignore it. It's not about you. This situation comes up a lot in life, and that's just how it is. If they don't insist you pray with them or involve you, that's their business. That's what it takes to get along in with other people. It's hard to find another living soul who has the exact same set of values as you, and dictating what others should and should not do is why wars happen.

But it's NOT self-serving for someone to make everyone else be silent and to delay eating while they do their prayer thing.
Got it.
If it were me and I wanted to say a prayer I would do it silently and not involve others.   But that's just me.

Everything everyone does is self-serving. We do things because we want to. I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply, but that's how it is. You have to listen to crowd noise in the city and smell other peoples' BO and garbage and wait in line at restaurants. It might not spark joy in you, but that's what happens when you live on a planet with other people. 

They are not involving you, they're doing what they need to do. You don't have to go out to dinner with them. Prayer is part of the package though. It comes with your friends. It is up to you to decide whether it's worth it to you. 

I remember feeling resentful of this myself for a time. I came to the place I am in for my own inner peace.

Welcome to having friends. Life is full of the need for compromises like that if you wish to have a social life.

Personally, this would bug me and I would construe what they're doing as very inconsiderate of me as their friend (assuming they know I'm an atheist and such), in which case I'd probably want to at least talk about this with them eventually. There are other ways/times they can pray without doing so in your presence, and I don't know of any Christian who is bound by specific times to pray. Maybe pray somewhere else silently/privately right before they come to the table to eat? It comes off as showy and imposing otherwise.

Who cares? it's a grand total of 30 seconds (at most) of your life, waiting for your friends to do something that is very important to them.

I swear, the things people choose to get hung up on...

(August 31, 2019 at 11:31 am)Aegon Wrote: Who cares? it's a grand total of 30 seconds (at most) of your life, waiting for your friends to do something that is very important to them.

I swear, the things people choose to get hung up on...

Their his panties, he can twist them as he wants.

(August 30, 2019 at 2:52 pm)Denverguy Wrote: I don't know how to handle this.  I have two religious friends, and whenever I go out to eat with either of them this is a problem.  I meet one only at restaurants.  He always says a prayer before eating.  It makes me feel awkward, as though by waiting until he's finished I am in agreement with the prayer.  I'm not.
I have another friend who I met for dinner at someone's house.  Before we ate she said a prayer, while we all waited.  (Several of us are non-believers).  
Again, the awkwardness while waiting for her to finish the prayer.  This is just me, but I find that to be a little rude and self-serving.
I am tempted to eat before she finishes the prayer, but that would be construed as rude.
I wish I knew how to deal with this problem.  Any suggestions?

I simply sit with my hands in my lap and wait.  It does not imply agreement.  I don't close my eyes but instead, look around to see who's eyes are closed and whose not.  It does not anger me or make me feel awkward.  I suppose it would be rude to take a bite and say "wow this is really good" during the prayer.  How would they know you were eating, their eyes are closed as they look inward to their imaginations, shutting out the real world.

I would suggest a compromise.
'God, thanks for this food we are about to receive, amen, let's eat.'
5 seconds.
If that prayer lasted more than 30 seconds, I would think my friend is taking the piss.
I would make the prayer go on for ages, don't forget to pray for this parsley, it's not included in the meal, it's a garnish, you have to pray for it separately, and don't forget to pray for the safety of the chefs. :-)

(August 31, 2019 at 11:31 am)Aegon Wrote: Who cares? it's a grand total of 30 seconds (at most) of your life, waiting for your friends to do something that is very important to them.

I swear, the things people choose to get hung up on...

Hence why I make sure to have friends who are considerate of what I stand for (if they have to pray, they can easily do so somewhere privately, there's no Christian doctrine/dogma dictating that they have to pray in a public secular setting in front of atheist friends ... or they can ask me first if I'm ok with them praying in front of me). And thankfully, my relatives are not so showy (oops, I mean ... religious) they feel they need to pray at the table when I'm around.

Also, I would bet a $1000 dollars if there were people of other faiths praying in front of them to other gods, they'd feel disrespected as well. Imagine a random friend praying to Satan in front of them ...

Of course, if we're talking church or some other setting where prayer is expected, that is different and I would not feel any disrespect at all. Depends on context.

(August 30, 2019 at 2:52 pm)Denverguy Wrote: I don't know how to handle this.  I have two religious friends, and whenever I go out to eat with either of them this is a problem.  I meet one only at restaurants.  He always says a prayer before eating.  It makes me feel awkward, as though by waiting until he's finished I am in agreement with the prayer.  I'm not.
I have another friend who I met for dinner at someone's house.  Before we ate she said a prayer, while we all waited.  (Several of us are non-believers).  
Again, the awkwardness while waiting for her to finish the prayer.  This is just me, but I find that to be a little rude and self-serving.
I am tempted to eat before she finishes the prayer, but that would be construed as rude.
I wish I knew how to deal with this problem.  Any suggestions?

Speaking of praying at meals, when I was in the 1st grade I went to a private Quaker school.  At one snack time, it was my turn to do the prayer but I messed it up.  I said God is good, God is great, let him thank us for our food.  It was supposed to be let us thank him for our food.  I got reamed by the teacher in front of everyone for a couple of minutes.  I was told that God doesn't thank us, we thank him and how disrespectful and sacrilegious I was being.   I look back on it now and think what a repressed and hateful monster that woman was to do that to a kid who just misspoke.   I was always in trouble at that school, always sitting in the backroom by myself and my mother was always getting lectured when she came to pick me up.  But I'm an introvert and I enjoyed my time in that room all by myself.  Their punishment was actually a reward.  Take that you dried up old hateful harridan.

(August 30, 2019 at 2:52 pm)Denverguy Wrote: I don't know how to handle this.  I have two religious friends, and whenever I go out to eat with either of them this is a problem.  I meet one only at restaurants.  He always says a prayer before eating.  It makes me feel awkward, as though by waiting until he's finished I am in agreement with the prayer.  I'm not.
I have another friend who I met for dinner at someone's house.  Before we ate she said a prayer, while we all waited.  (Several of us are non-believers).  
Again, the awkwardness while waiting for her to finish the prayer.  This is just me, but I find that to be a little rude and self-serving.
I am tempted to eat before she finishes the prayer, but that would be construed as rude.
I wish I knew how to deal with this problem.  Any suggestions?

The verse they use for this is grossly mistranslated:

enteuxis

In context, Paul is referring to the gathering together of people (enteuxis) for a special meal(separating a class from a class) of good food and poignant conversation concerning the character and nature of God’s word. Sounds like a heavenly party! NOT A RITUAL!

Of course, as a stupid surfer, I am wrong and all their teachers must be right. You know, they're filled with that thar Holy Spirit thingy and can't possibly be lying! Just be patient and know that they are...……

---

(September 1, 2019 at 2:11 am)Haipule Wrote:

(August 30, 2019 at 2:52 pm)Denverguy Wrote: I don't know how to handle this.  I have two religious friends, and whenever I go out to eat with either of them this is a problem.  I meet one only at restaurants.  He always says a prayer before eating.  It makes me feel awkward, as though by waiting until he's finished I am in agreement with the prayer.  I'm not.
I have another friend who I met for dinner at someone's house.  Before we ate she said a prayer, while we all waited.  (Several of us are non-believers).  
Again, the awkwardness while waiting for her to finish the prayer.  This is just me, but I find that to be a little rude and self-serving.
I am tempted to eat before she finishes the prayer, but that would be construed as rude.
I wish I knew how to deal with this problem.  Any suggestions?

The verse they use for this is grossly mistranslated:

enteuxis

 

Side by Side: for it(food) is(-being) sanctified(purified, separating a class from a class) by(through) means of [the]word(intellect) of God and(-also) prayer(enteuxis). 1 Tim 4:5 NASB

 

enteuxis is a noun which means: a falling in with, meeting with, an interview, a coming together; to visit, converse or for any other cause. It only occurs twice in the NT and only by Paul and only in 1st Timothy.

 

In its verb form, it is the prefixed preposition en(in) + tugchanO(hit the mark). tugchanO is the opposite of hamartia(miss the mark, usually translated “sin”). Now, how we came from entugchanO(verb) to enteuxis(noun) to the English word “prayer” is beyond my 1st grade exchange student Greek, as well as my 4th grade surfer English.

In context, Paul is referring to the gathering together of people (enteuxis) for a special meal(separating a class from a class) of good food and poignant conversation concerning the character and nature of God’s word. Sounds like a heavenly party! NOT A RITUAL!

Of course, as a stupid surfer, I am wrong and all their teachers must be right. You know, they're filled with that thar Holy Spirit thingy and can't possibly be lying! Just be patient and know that they are...……

I love it when they ask me to say "grace", "Father, thank you for the food and friends. We ask that it nourish our bodies and heart: SO-BE-IT!" When the recipe says "serve immediately", why fuck around?!

(August 30, 2019 at 2:52 pm)Denverguy Wrote: I wish I knew how to deal with this problem.  Any suggestions?

I have a perfect solution: when your friend finishes his/ her prayer just say "Ave Satanas" and if you're really in a mood say "Ave Satanas Ave Domini Inferni"

"Ave Satanas" comes in handy in all sorts of occasions as well, like when religious people congratulate you on their religious holiday you say to them "Ave Satanas"; when you meet a priest and he greets you with "Praised be Jesus" you say "Ave Satanas"; when some religious person says "I will pray for you" you say "Ave Satanas"