It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

I live five miles from Ferguson, Missouri. I know the cops there, I know the reorganization that was mandated after the riots. I was in that up to my neck. Because it matters to me.

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

The new "those people".


How are things ever going to improve when groups are afraid of "them"?

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

I would be very cautious with advice such as this.    For every instance that made the news where involvement of biased police led to the wrongful injuries or death of black persons, there are likely many more instances that didn't make the news where involvement of the police relieved the danger to life or limb faced by black persons. 


Police is an institution that becomes involved chiefly to relief situations where there are already other causes for caution and discernment.    -  These could be in the case where there is assault, armed intruder, or situation manifestly unsafe for life or limb.    When one evaluate the potential risk of involving biased police, one needs to weigh the risks associated with facing risky situations without police aid.

(October 16, 2019 at 1:18 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

The new "those people".


How are things ever going to improve when groups are afraid of "them"?

I think you've got it backwards.

Boru

(October 16, 2019 at 1:18 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

The new "those people".



How are things ever going to improve when groups are afraid of "them"?

You speak as if my being a law-abiding citizen who prefers to avoid interacting with authority figures with entrenched racial biases and GUNS lies somewhere at the heart of this problem. 

Is that why so many officers abuse their power and authority, the remainder stay mum, and the greater departments are reluctant to hold officers accountable--because people are afraid of them? 
Seems to me that it's the other way around.

Perhaps you're right, though. Maybe the burden to make things better should rest on folks like me.
Hey...I know! Dean is out on bond. Maybe I should fly down there give him a big hug--Tell him he's not such a bad guy.

Then maybe this sort of thing won't happen again.
Lol

---

(October 16, 2019 at 1:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

I would be very cautious with advice such as this.    For every instance that made the news where involvement of biased police led to the wrongful injuries or death of black persons, there are likely many more instances that didn't make the news where involvement of the police relieved the danger to life or limb faced by black persons. 


Police is an institution that becomes involved chiefly to relief situations where there are already other causes for caution and discernment.    -  These could be in the case where there is assault, armed intruder, or situation manifestly unsafe for life or limb.    When one evaluate the potential risk of involving biased police, one needs to weigh the risks associated with facing risky situations without police aid.

Lol.

Weighing the risks of involving biased police against against other potentially risky situation is indeed a part of using extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police.

So, I'm not sure what you're going on about.

(October 16, 2019 at 11:44 am)Athene Wrote: It's not irrational for Blacks to fear and mistrust law enforcement. Police hold the same implicit/explicit dehumanizing biases about Black people that the general population does--Only they're armed with guns and the power of arrest. Coupled with the general lack of integrity and oversight that is present in police departments, Blacks and other minorities are more likely to bear brunt of police brutality and other misconduct.

I've always advised Black folks (including my children) to use extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police--Yes, even when seeking assistance.
Personally, I avoid dealing with them on ANY level if it's at all possible.

Seems a perfectly legit response as far as I’m concerned.
I know being a cop can be an extremely dangerous job, but there’s nothing that can justify what appears to be a culture of inherent racism and protectionism within some police departments.

Perhaps better background checks, psych evals would go a long way, along with harsher laws for law enforcement/authority figures who break the law.

(October 16, 2019 at 2:33 pm)Athene Wrote:

(October 16, 2019 at 1:18 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: The new "those people".



How are things ever going to improve when groups are afraid of "them"?

You speak as if my being a law-abiding citizen who prefers to avoid interacting with authority figures with entrenched racial biases and GUNS lies somewhere at the heart of this problem. 

Is that why so many officers abuse their power and authority, the remainder stay mum, and the greater departments are reluctant to hold officers accountable--because people are afraid of them? 
Seems to me that it's the other way around.

Perhaps you're right, though. Maybe the burden to make things better should rest on folks like me.
Hey...I know! Dean is out on bond. Maybe I should fly down there give him a big hug--Tell him he's not such a bad guy.

Then maybe this sort of thing won't happen again.
Lol

---

(October 16, 2019 at 1:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: I would be very cautious with advice such as this.    For every instance that made the news where involvement of biased police led to the wrongful injuries or death of black persons, there are likely many more instances that didn't make the news where involvement of the police relieved the danger to life or limb faced by black persons. 


Police is an institution that becomes involved chiefly to relief situations where there are already other causes for caution and discernment.    -  These could be in the case where there is assault, armed intruder, or situation manifestly unsafe for life or limb.    When one evaluate the potential risk of involving biased police, one needs to weigh the risks associated with facing risky situations without police aid.

Lol.

Weighing the risks of involving biased police against against other potentially risky situation is indeed a part of using extreme caution and discernment when dealing with police.

So, I'm not sure what you're going on about.

I am going on about you should not exaggerate the danger of dealing with even biased police when weighing involving the police to deal with dangerous situations against dealing with dangerous situations without the police.

The gay community didn't make the advances in society it did in my lifetime by avoiding "the other".

They did it by being part of the community - and getting to know people who did not previously know gay people.

It's not easy. Overcoming generations of fucked up thinking isn't going to happen overnight.

Dangerous situations, like a door being left open at night. :-)