He didn't publish a book on why hell was inconsistent with christian doctrine, lol, he published a book on why believing in hell was idiotic - and he mostly makes his case by declaring those parts of magic book that lay hell out to be fables. Now.....he might think that being idiotic is inconsistent with christianity, but as a counter point..I offer the example of christianity.

Believe in hell, don't believe in hell...it hardly matters. The people who wrote magic book certainly believed in hell, and wrote it in. I think it's admirable that some people are manufacturing a new christianity to be more inline with their contemporary mores - but I suspect that they would not appreciate their efforts being so dryly and accurately described.

(December 18, 2019 at 2:28 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 10:20 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Any sufficiently advanced being could convince me it was God. As a mere mortal, I am not competent to tell the difference between God and any number of conceivable powerful beings capable of powerful feats or just manipulating my perceptions. For that matter, I can imagine having great difficulty telling God from a hallucinatory experience.

Even if God were real, there are logical problems with it being able to prove that it's the reputed tri-Omni deity that created all of existence (except itself because it was always there, for some reason or none). A real God couldn't do anything to convince us that aforementioned perception manipulators couldn't. It can't demonstrate that it's the tri-Omni Creator, it can only demonstrate that it's really powerful, or at least appears to be. Once you're above a certain level of power or illusion, we mortals can't tell the difference.

That said, I will gladly believe any reality or perception warper that claims to be God if it keeps it from torturing me.

I have to agree. If I believed that this God was like many have made him out to be I would have nothing to do with him and would decide not to believe in him. I would gather all the evidence I could muster to disprove his existence. I would pile it up so high nothing else could be seen. I would religiously worship that pile of rubbish faithfully every morning.

For the most part man has constructed god in their image not the other way around. This construction is made of a being that is unbending, revengeful, and arbitrary. He has been depicted as a being willing and wanting to torcher those who disagree with him. However, this is a malconstruction and unsupported in scripture. Believe he exists or not, at least accept the fact that his character has been maligned from what scripture teaches.

I didn't decide not to believe. How would that even work? I read the Bible cover-to-cover twice, and although it cured me of being a Christian, it didn't make me an atheist. I still believed in God, I just didn't think he, she, or it inspired the Bible. I thought too highly of God to believe the biblical depiction of God.

I used to believe in just about everything: Alien abduction, ancient aliens, Bigfoot, ESP, ghosts, the Loch Ness Monster, spirits, supernatural miracles, and so on. I thought the Duke University studies had proven ESP beyond a reasonable doubt. Then a couple of guys demonstrated how easy it was to fool the scientists involved, and when Duke tightened up its protocols to eliminate deception whether conscious or unconscious, their results were equal to chance alone.

I started to become more skeptical. I started to ask about the quality of evidence supporting fantastic claims. God was the last fantastical being I stopped believing in, and all I did was apply the same standard to claims about God that I was applying to claims about the paranormal.

Assuming that you don't believe in every god ever claimed, is it your process to gather all the evidence you can to disprove their existence because you don't like their character, or do you just find the claims that those gods exist unconvincing?

Maxolla, does your god answer prayers?

(December 19, 2019 at 7:42 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 7:25 pm)maxolla Wrote: Ipuwer Papyrus would seem to disagree.   https://beginningandend.com/did-the-exod...he-exodus/

Wrong. The Ipuwer makes no mention of jews, jewish slaves, Moses or any part of the Exodus account. In fact it refers to an influx not an exodus.

And then you cite a fundamentalist crank site as support.

Again I ask, do you want to debate honestly or dishonestly?

Because attempting to shoehorn unrelated material into bible based faith sure seems to provide an answer to that question. What is your answer?

At the time of Ipawer and during that period Jew was not a term used to define the people of Israel. To the Egyptians they were “slaves”. There was no exodus until Israel left, which was after the plagues which Ipawer doesn’t mention as such specifically but the language “blood everywhere” while not conclusive seems to point to several possible plagues that the Bible depicts.
Additionally the writings of the old testament are some of the oldest writings in existence and originate from a nation that exists today called Israel. I know you don’t call in to question the existence of the Jewish Nation.

Israeli archaeologists have, reluctantly, concluded that there was no Exodus. The origin of the myth was probably during the Babylonian captivity.

(December 19, 2019 at 11:10 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 2:28 pm)maxolla Wrote: I have to agree. If I believed that this God was like many have made him out to be I would have nothing to do with him and would decide not to believe in him. I would gather all the evidence I could muster to disprove his existence. I would pile it up so high nothing else could be seen. I would religiously worship that pile of rubbish faithfully every morning.

For the most part man has constructed god in their image not the other way around. This construction is made of a being that is unbending, revengeful, and arbitrary. He has been depicted as a being willing and wanting to torcher those who disagree with him. However, this is a malconstruction and unsupported in scripture. Believe he exists or not, at least accept the fact that his character has been maligned from what scripture teaches.

I didn't decide not to believe. How would that even work? I read the Bible cover-to-cover twice, and although it cured me of being a Christian, it didn't make me an atheist. I still believed in God, I just didn't think he, she, or it inspired the Bible. I thought too highly of God to believe the biblical depiction of God.

I used to believe in just about everything: Alien abduction, ancient aliens, Bigfoot, ESP, ghosts, the Loch Ness Monster, spirits, supernatural miracles, and so on. I thought the Duke University studies had proven ESP beyond a reasonable doubt. Then a couple of guys demonstrated how easy it was to fool the scientists involved, and when Duke tightened up its protocols to eliminate deception whether conscious or unconscious, their results were equal to chance alone.

I started to become more skeptical. I started to ask about the quality of evidence supporting fantastic claims. God was the last fantastical being I stopped believing in, and all I did was apply the same standard to claims about God that I was applying to claims about the paranormal.

Assuming that you don't believe in every god ever claimed, is it your process to gather all the evidence you can to disprove their existence because you don't like their character, or do you just find the claims that those gods exist unconvincing?

I find the claims of their existence unconvincing. Of course understand that I haven’t examined all of the evidence because I haven’t heard of all of the different gods available to believe in. In some eastern cultures there are literally thousands upon thousands of gods that are reckoned to be real. I think the “one God over all” doctrine is shared solely by the Abrahamic faiths. Of course correct me if I’m wrong.

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(December 19, 2019 at 11:37 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Israeli archaeologists have, reluctantly, concluded that there was no Exodus. The origin of the myth was probably during the Babylonian captivity.

What Israeli Archaeologist?

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(December 19, 2019 at 11:26 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Maxolla, does your god answer prayers?

Stories and accounts of it exist.

Efrayim and Moshe.

(December 19, 2019 at 11:37 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Israeli archaeologists have, reluctantly, concluded that there was no Exodus. The origin of the myth was probably during the Babylonian captivity.

Look hard enough and you will find “Christian” archaeologists that discount accounts written in scripture. While the Bible teaches of the existence of satan their are Christians that teach of his non existence and that he is a fabled antagonist.

(December 19, 2019 at 11:46 am)maxolla Wrote:

(December 19, 2019 at 11:26 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Maxolla, does your god answer prayers?

Stories and accounts of it exist.

Then your God would answer prayers to restore an amputated limb?

(December 19, 2019 at 11:54 am)no one Wrote: Efrayim and Moshe.

Deuteronomy 34