You guys ask if God exists why does he not openly reveal himself to us. I answer that he reveals himself directly to us as well as through the accounts of countless intelligent humans throughout human history to whom he has shown himself.

You respond that is BS because science, which has no tool or method to determine this, cannot confirm the things to which I refer. Therefore, it is stupid to believe in God or any existence beyond what science has the capacity to discover or measure.

Well, I respect science and view it as an extremely valuable tool for discovering truth and is valuable for improving the human condition. But there's no way I'm going to abandon my belief in God and the supernatural because of knowledge, or lack of such, obtained from a method that is not even equipped to make such a judgment.

I can't take it seriously when you tell me that God cannot communicate himself to countless others and myself when you have no way of knowing that. I prefer to use the method that is best equipped to determine the situation.

(January 1, 2020 at 11:55 pm)Lek Wrote: You guys ask if God exists why does he not openly reveal himself to  us. I  answer that he reveals himself directly to us as well as through the accounts of countless intelligent humans throughout human history to whom he has shown himself.

You respond that is BS because science, which has no tool or method to determine this, cannot confirm the things to which I refer. Therefore, it is stupid to believe in God or any existence beyond what science has the capacity to discover or measure.

Well, I respect science and view it as an extremely valuable tool for discovering truth and is valuable for improving the human condition.  But there's no way I'm going to abandon my belief in God and the supernatural because of knowledge, or lack of such, obtained from a method that is not even equipped to make such a judgment.

I  can't take it seriously when you tell me that God cannot communicate himself to countless others and myself when you have no way of knowing that.  I prefer to use the method that is best equipped to determine the situation.

My response to you was a question, and you never answered it:

How did you determine that the cause of these experiences was more likely to be supernatural than natural? What is your method? What are your reasons? It’s not our responsibility to reassure you that your beliefs are right via admitting we can’t disprove them. It’s your responsibility as an adult to look within at your own reasoning, and make an objective decision about whether or not it’s good enough to support that belief.

My method is prayer and listening to God along with studying and considering alternatives. Then I try to drop the belief. If it doesn't go away I tend to believe it.

People go into remission with cancer.

And it seems those who do come from the whole range of the religious spectrum, so it doesn’t seem ti be an indication of a specific deity.

Why they do we honestly don’t know. Is it genetic, due to lifestyle choices, something that hasn’t been identified? Perhaps it’s a combination of factors.

We don't know. It could also be supernatural. Whether or not you already believe in the supernatural makes a difference in what you think.

At work.

(January 2, 2020 at 12:49 am)Lek Wrote: We don't know. It could also be supernatural.

Hello Lek.

Have you, perhaps, read the book "Beyond Supernature" by Lyall Watson ?

I have only fond faint memories myself, having browsed its pages a while ago... some time in the late, last century.

It dealt with broaching the divide between the currently known and the supposed unknown.

I do highly recommend it.

Also highly recommend 'Godel, Escher and Bach; The eternal golden braid.'

Another tome I found fascinating in my youth.

Cheers.

Thanks.

(January 2, 2020 at 12:49 am)Lek Wrote: We don't know. It could also be supernatural.  Whether or not you already believe in the supernatural makes a difference in what you think.

Ignorance is not a justification for the supernatural . The presumption of mere possibility isn't enough . Pointing to the mere  possibility of he supernatural does not give one reason to think it's real

(January 2, 2020 at 12:35 am)Lek Wrote: My method is prayer and listening  to God

So, you’re starting with your conclusion then. You don’t see the obvious problem with that reasoning?

"Listening to god" is pious prattle for talking to himself. He knows that he doesn't actually hear a god, LFC. Only crazy people do.