(October 20, 2011 at 2:31 am)KdThaKing Wrote: Well actually technically if you want to get scientific,us coming from ape is an hypothesis at best.Until you see an ape transform into a human then you cant conclude it to be a fact.

Right, you need to stop this, immediately. You have already shown that you do not understand the first thing about evolution, so why do you continue to make assertions about it? Read carefully, and stop making thick headed claims like the one above:

Evolution does not say that humans came from apes. It certainly does not say that one day an ape gave birth to a human. To suggest that this is what evolutionary theory states is simply untrue, and anyone who has told you that's the case has either been ignorant themselves or has deliberately misled you to tarnish the name of something that is as solid a scientific fact as gravity.

So let's do away with a couple of your preconceptions. The humans/apes thing. We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. I think I'm right in saying our next closest relatives are bonobos. However, we do not 'come from' either. Both ourselves and chimpanzees are descended from a common ancestor. Several hundred thousand or million years ago, natural selection diverged among different groups of that common ancestor. Now we can speculate on why one group evolved a certain way, and the other group a different way, but for the purposes of this, it's irrelevant; the fact remains that it happened.

Dawkins explains the 'ape giving birth to a human' thing quite ably. If you look at your father, you'll see he is built in more or less the same way as you, save his individual features. And your grandfather the same, and his father the same, and so on. But if you were able to go back along this timeline far enough, after a few thousand years if you compared this ancestor to yourself, you might notice a few changes. Maybe the jaw is more square, or the nose flatter. And if you carried on going, maybe to 30,000 years, you might find other things. The skin getting darker (since we know our species originated in Africa), more body hair. And if you kept on going, you would see figures who bore less and less resemblance to humans, eventually reaching the ancestor we share with apes. BUT, if you were to take any two consecutive figures in this long, long line, they would look identical. The point is, evolution is a slow process, much slower than its easy to get your head around.

Hope this has been helpful. You seriously need to read more about evolution before you start trying to lecture on it, though.

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(October 20, 2011 at 4:43 am)KdThaKing Wrote: It is inconceivable to think that things evolve from the same DNA at a different rate of speed or evolution.Why is there so much a variety of different life?what i mean is why are there monkeys,elephants,giraffes,fish,birds,and even humans?and why do they all work together to play very important roles in each others lifes?how do trees produce oxygen and take in carbon dioxide which we produce?how is it that we need the very nutrients that are found naturally like protein etc to survive?If all DNA already had the capabilities of life in it then why do we need to sustain it outside of ourselves?why do we have to eat foods high in nutrients and meats high in proteins to survive if in fact DNA can survive on its own long enough to mutate and produce in this mass variety of internal and external embodyments?

Do you realise that there are answers to many of those questions? Fully explained, satisfactory answers? Can you honestly tell me if you have ever actually looked into these things and attempted to find the answers? Or are you just wilfully remaining ignorant?

Answer me this: If you could get the answers to those questions, would it make a difference to your belief in God? Since you're using them to 'prove' God's existence, would explaining them bring you to the conclusion that God was unnecessary? Be honest.

(October 20, 2011 at 4:46 am)frankiej Wrote: OK, if you are asking questions like that, then you should genuinely research it all... You obviously know VERY little scientific things at all.

Also if you cant answer it regardless of your feelings toward me or my question then you sir are lacking knowledge.If your knowledge solely depends on proving things in this world then you are only as smart as the times my friend.If u were living before columbus you wouldnt even know America existed that shows how smart science is...science is very unreliable in answering the completely logical questions like how did things come to be about and why things are and what things should be..theres no structure in science except that it is a group of people who will only believe what they experience with there 5 senses and nothing else..If you want to be swept away by false assumptions from scientists who think they know how to explain life yet wont give a clear structure or example or cant even produce life theirselves then all up to you..You cant make something living from something that is not and thats a FACT so If you believe it has happened then you cant say science is your belief because you say you believe in science yet you say that when you die your are dead and even science says there is no coming back so therefore life cant come from nothing.It had to be CrEATED

Your own ignorance on the subject is absolutely no reason to assume there must be a creator.

Evolution doesn't "hinge" on one thing. Science supplies the best hypothesis it can at the time, then changes it when a better explanation comes along. By better I mean one that has greater evidence and elegance of explanation. You also gave a highly simplistic explanation for all of the processes mentioned. For the sake of brevity in a post, that's fine...but you better realize that far more goes into all of the things you are asking about than have been described in these four pages. I suggest you read more, and then instead of posting for answers on an atheist forum you go to a biologist - particularly one who works with evolution - and ask them some questions.

It floors me every time a Christian (in particular - this isn't limited to them, or even theists by any means) decides they want to spout off that God must be real and they present an argument to people who are not experts in whatever the topic of that argument is. I think this is an instinctive mechanism to avoid being called out on their bullshit in any permanent sense. I would be a lot more impressed if you could take this to a real scientist and have them be unable to explain it to you, but I have incredible "faith" in an evo biologist being able to do just that - as long as you keep an open mind and admit your ignorance.

Because that's the other thing: science isn't afraid to say "we don't know...yet".

Also - people in the past were quite aware that the world was round. History fail.

PS, Shelly - I apologize for my hubris of calling myself a queen.

He won't take in anything you say, or answer any of your questions... He will just throw out random, retarded questions about a subject he knows nothing about.

Wait. You're the one making the substantial claim that "God Is Real". What actual evidence do you have that any gods exist, much less your god?

Well, because he is simple and can't understand simple scientific ideas the only other option is God... Obviously... Praise Jesus!

(October 20, 2011 at 5:09 am)frankiej Wrote: He won't take in anything you say, or answer any of your questions... He will just throw out random, retarded questions about a subject he knows nothing about.

I had a chemistry teacher once who said "You don't have to know everything...you just have to know how to find it."

(October 20, 2011 at 5:01 am)KdThaKing Wrote: If u were living before columbus you wouldnt even know America existed that shows how smart science is...science is very unreliable in answering the completely logical questions like how did things come to be about and why things are and what things should be..theres no structure in science except that it is a group of people who will only believe what they experience with there 5 senses and nothing else.

Right, my patience with you is wearing thin. You'd better start learning fucking fast. You've had the benefit of our politeness, but this kind of argument is very unimpressive. You said you wanted to discuss, so stop making assertions that you cannot support like the ones above. If you want to know, why not ask a question instead of telling us what things are and aren't.

So how does not knowing a place existed show that science doesn't work? The entire point of science is to GAIN UNDERSTANDING. Science is constantly seeking to find out more about the world and the universe, and it's done it for thousands of years. From finding out that the Earth revolved around the Sun (opposed by the Bible and Church, by the way), to finding cures and wiping out horrific diseases like smallpox. The amount we owe to scientific exploration is simply staggering. You wouldn't be able to flush your shit down the toilet or cook your breakfast without it.

Now what that means is that science does not claim to have the answers to everything. So we don't have a complete picture of how the universe began, or how life started, but science is working on finding out the answers to it. Why do you think that's so unimpressive? Why do you think science should have absolutely every answer, RIGHT NOW? It develops, that's the point.

Finally, it's nothing to do with one scientist experiencing something with his or her senses and declaring it to be fact. When a scientist publishes a paper, they submit it to be peer-reviewed. They get other scientists to test their findings. They test, and test, and test. They change the parameters and test again to see if the results are replicated under different circumstances. Via this method they establish something to be a strong theory or a weak theory. When science is able to use that theory to PREDICT a result, it becomes a fact.

You've now got two long, explanatory posts out of me. You've got one chance to adjust your attitude and stop pretending that you have all the answers.

(October 20, 2011 at 5:01 am)KdThaKing Wrote: If u were living before columbus you wouldnt even know America existed that shows how smart science is...

This is going on my scoreboard for "dumbest shit people have said".

Hope you don't mind.

What he doesn't know is that Jesus is evil and so is his God... The word of the Yoga-Lord tells it.
The mighty prophet Yogi Bear died for us to be able to perform Yoga.

The price for betraying the Yoga-Lord is an eternity of soiling yourself on a yoga mat, while devouring Yog-cocoons.

For those who don't know, a yog-cocoon is yoghurt inside a shell of Stilton cheese.