(February 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm)Agnostico Wrote: This is just another one of those topics that the secular community support for one reason only... To oppose religion
If they wanted to make it legal to kill a baby up to 6 months, these guys would support it

All this concern about the health of the woman isn't genuine. If it was then the mental health of the woman would be taken into consideration.
Most women are left mentally scared by abortion. 
Guilt
anxiety
depression
eating disorders
alcohol and drug abuse
fear of infertility, suicidal thoughts
post traumatic stress disorder
post abortion stress syndrome
avoiding kids or pregnant women
unable to bond with present or future children
fear that her children will die

No one is concerned for the woman health post abortion

The probability of a woman being diagnosed with mental health problems after an abortion is 25%.
The probability of a member of the public being diagnosed with a mental health problem on average is 25%.
Statistically the effects are negligible.

(February 17, 2020 at 3:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, we could force a woman to carry the child of her rapist for nine months.  I'm sure that wouldn't cause ANY psychological stress.

And for the record, I don't support abortion rights as a way  to oppose religion.  I support abortion rights as a way to promote human dignity.  I would be beyond delighted if no woman ever found herself in a position where she would consider abortion, where every child was wanted, loved and cared for. So before you ascribe motives to me which I do not possess, you can kindly fuck directly off.

Boru

Im not calling for a total ban on abortion. I think they should be reserved for these rare cases of rape, medical risk, etc

For someone who can't afford it or just doesn't want it they can always give the kid up for adoption where it will be loved


As for your indignation, it's unwarranted cos I didn't direct that comment at u

(February 17, 2020 at 4:43 pm)Agnostico Wrote:

(February 17, 2020 at 3:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, we could force a woman to carry the child of her rapist for nine months.  I'm sure that wouldn't cause ANY psychological stress.

And for the record, I don't support abortion rights as a way  to oppose religion.  I support abortion rights as a way to promote human dignity.  I would be beyond delighted if no woman ever found herself in a position where she would consider abortion, where every child was wanted, loved and cared for. So before you ascribe motives to me which I do not possess, you can kindly fuck directly off.

Boru

Im not calling for a total ban on abortion. I think they should be reserved for these rare cases of rape, medical risk, etc

For someone who can't afford it or just doesn't want it they can always give the kid up for adoption where it will be loved


As for your indignation, it's unwarranted cos I didn't direct that comment at u

If you're calling to limit abortion, in the sense that it isn't available to any woman who wants one, you're a moral beast and should be ashamed of yourself.

And you directed that comment at 'the secular community'.  I'm a member in good standing.

Boru

This is just another one of those topics that the secular community support for one reason only... To oppose religion
If they wanted to make it legal to kill a baby up to 6 months, these guys would support it

Quote:All this concern about the health of the woman isn't genuine. If it was then the mental health of the woman would be taken into consideration.
Most women are left mentally scared by abortion. 
Guilt
anxiety
depression
eating disorders
alcohol and drug abuse
fear of infertility, suicidal thoughts
post traumatic stress disorder
post abortion stress syndrome
avoiding kids or pregnant women
unable to bond with present or future children
fear that her children will die

No one is concerned for the woman health post abortion

There is plenty of studies that dispute and refute this,And also plenty to argue the opposite ,By the way women also suffer trauma due to having their kids adopted out and you support that so you might wanna work out that plank in your eye ,And this has nothing to do with atheism or religion.

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(February 17, 2020 at 10:53 am)Agnostico Wrote:

(February 17, 2020 at 9:14 am)Mr Greene Wrote: So you're saying the propaganda videos had the desired effect of manipulating your emotions?

U call facts propaganda which in itself says a lot
And u criticize me on having empathy for an innocent human life

Another fine example of atheist morality, or lack of it

Quite the opposite.He criticized you for being emotionally minded .Oh and innocence doesn't apply to a fetus .

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Quote:Im not calling for a total ban on abortion. I think they should be reserved for these rare cases of rape, medical risk, etc

Not good enough 

Quote:For someone who can't afford it or just doesn't want it they can always give the kid up for adoption where it will be loved

Adoption can also lead to trauma and forces the women to stay pregnant 

Quote:As for your indignation, it's unwarranted cos I didn't direct that comment at u

Your comment still applied thus i was

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Quote:Im not calling for a total ban on abortion. I think they should be reserved for these rare cases of rape, medical risk, etc

Not good enough 

Quote:For someone who can't afford it or just doesn't want it they can always give the kid up for adoption where it will be loved

Adoption can also lead to trauma and forces the women to stay pregnant 

Quote:As for your indignation, it's unwarranted cos I didn't direct that comment at u

Your comment still applied thus i was

(February 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm)Agnostico Wrote: This is just another one of those topics that the secular community support for one reason only... To oppose religion
If they wanted to make it legal to kill a baby up to 6 months, these guys would support it

All this concern about the health of the woman isn't genuine. If it was then the mental health of the woman would be taken into consideration.
Most women are left mentally scared by abortion. 
Guilt
anxiety
depression
eating disorders
alcohol and drug abuse
fear of infertility, suicidal thoughts
post traumatic stress disorder
post abortion stress syndrome
avoiding kids or pregnant women
unable to bond with present or future children
fear that her children will die

No one is concerned for the woman health post abortion

Can you show me a non biased site with peer reviewed information that backs up this claim?

(February 17, 2020 at 5:44 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(February 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm)Agnostico Wrote: This is just another one of those topics that the secular community support for one reason only... To oppose religion
If they wanted to make it legal to kill a baby up to 6 months, these guys would support it

All this concern about the health of the woman isn't genuine. If it was then the mental health of the woman would be taken into consideration.
Most women are left mentally scared by abortion. 
Guilt
anxiety
depression
eating disorders
alcohol and drug abuse
fear of infertility, suicidal thoughts
post traumatic stress disorder
post abortion stress syndrome
avoiding kids or pregnant women
unable to bond with present or future children
fear that her children will die

No one is concerned for the woman health post abortion

Can you show me a non biased site with peer reviewed information that backs up this claim?

I can show you the opposite or determine the issue unsettled

https://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/

https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2006/08/a...-realities

https://www.guttmacher.org/perspectives5...r-abortion

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsy...ct/2681166

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...ds-n878706

https://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/ab...health.pdf

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/campaign...al-health/

Quote:The closet he's going to get and even then the rates were small 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...FFBBFEBD2E

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Studies suggesting the harm of adoption 

https://www.originscanada.org/adoption-t...g-mothers/

https://www.originscanada.org/adoption-t...t-tell-us/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-traum..._b_6919982


https://consideringadoption.com/thoughts...part-three

https://www.jaspermountain.org/4_26_16_u...option.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20107378


https://adoptionhealing.com/ginni.html#birthmother

https://adoptionnetwork.com/emotional-an...rth-mother

https://web.archive.org/web/200612181642..._knew.html

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/f_impact.pdf

Not an exhaustive list

My i point out i'm pro adoption it's just this line of reasoning isn't a good argument

(February 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm)Agnostico Wrote: This is just another one of those topics that the secular community support for one reason only... To oppose religion
If they wanted to make it legal to kill a baby up to 6 months, these guys would support it

All this concern about the health of the woman isn't genuine. If it was then the mental health of the woman would be taken into consideration.
Most women are left mentally scared by abortion. 
Guilt
anxiety
depression
eating disorders
alcohol and drug abuse
fear of infertility, suicidal thoughts
post traumatic stress disorder
post abortion stress syndrome
avoiding kids or pregnant women
unable to bond with present or future children
fear that her children will die

No one is concerned for the woman health post abortion

What? No.

SUNGULA Wrote:I can show you the opposite or determine the issue unsettled

I had a look and to be fair there are articles and studies that say there is a link between abortion and poor mental health and there are some that say otherwise.

Take the first link u put up. It is very detailed and cites many studies. It basically says that its a mix bag of results
https://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/ab...health.pdf

On one hand there is this statement
"Task Force on Mental Health and Abortion concludes that the most methodologically sound research indicates that among women who have a single, legal, first-trimester abortion of an unplanned pregnancy for nontherapeutic reasons, the relative risks of mental health problems are no greater than the risks among women who deliver an unplanned pregnancy"

On the other hand there was this statement
 "In these analyses, women who had one or more abortions prior to age 21 had a significantly higher number of total psychiatric disorders by age 25 than women who had delivered or had never been pregnant by age 21. This study thus suggests that women who have one or more abortions at a young age (<21) are at greater relative risk for psychiatric disorder compared to women who deliver a child at a young age or women who do not get pregnant at a young age."

Then in this link u added...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/

Like the other study the results are mixed

• "(a) There are no findings of mental health benefits associated with abortion. 
  
  
• (b) The association between abortion and higher rates of anxiety, depression, substance use, traumatic symptoms, sleep disorders, and other negative outcomes is statistically significant in most analyses.
  
  
• © The minority of analyses that do not show statistically significant higher rates of negative outcomes do not contradict those that do"
  

They all agree that some women have negative experiences due to having an abortion. It's the extent of that which is unclear.


So from these studies both sides design and release many propaganda posters... They both milk it

 

 

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(February 17, 2020 at 4:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If you're calling to limit abortion, in the sense that it isn't available to any woman who wants one, you're a moral beast and should be ashamed of yourself.

That line just reminds me of... "How Dare You"...



Anyway it is what it is. Abortion is alive and well in the west

Most U.S states allow it right up until birth and allow partial birth abortion
Someone suggested I had a look and learnt about abortion procedures. 
I already knew this but I would make the same suggestion to everyone else, watch the videos at least.

Comes down to this:

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But don't tell others they can't have one because you're against it, especially those who are victims of incest or rape.

(February 18, 2020 at 4:14 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Comes down to this:

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.  But don't tell others they can't have one because you're against it, especially those who are victims of incest or rape.

I agree. Im not telling anyone what to do. I can still express my opinion.
As i said im not talking about rare cases like rape, medical, etc

Im going to present my moral and social arguments against abortion tmrw probs.

Bed time for me but a question first...
What are the reasons someone would choose abortion over adoption? Its a big decision and i want to make sure i understand it. As a guy I can only guess.

Maybe if a girl doesn't want her parents to find out 
She might be pressured by her family or the guy
Maybe if she doesn't want to carry the child and give birth to it
She might not want to have her child out there somewhere with other parents, never see him again

Is there anything else? The question could do with a female perspective i think