(May 15, 2020 at 6:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If the prophecy isn’t to be interpreted literally, there’s no way it can be ‘clear and precise.’

It actually can be interpreted literally for people who can understand Arabic. One can't hang around barefoot in scandinavia, Muhammad clearly refers to the Arabian peninsula, where the arid climate matches the description. The word destitute is a bit mistranslated, but that's the best one can offer to a non Arab speaking audience. The exact translation would be naked, to refer to people wearing few to no clothes in hot areas. But for one to start complaing about corporations, embassies and corruption as not being mentioned in a speech directed to people living in the desert fourteen centuries ago..........

(May 15, 2020 at 6:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Don’t take it personally - all religionists want prophecies to be true, so they look and look and look until they find something that they imagine will fit the bill.  Since it never quite fits, they resort to twisted meanings to file off the rough edges (much like you’re doing here).

The prophecy presented here is really clear, it really can't be misinterpreted without resorting to some silly wordplay. How else one is supposed to understand competing to build the lengthiest buildings, which is what the original hadith exactly says.....?

(May 15, 2020 at 6:41 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: The prophecy presented here is really clear, it really can't be misinterpreted without resorting to some silly wordplay.

Okay, explain in scientific terms how prophesy works.

(May 15, 2020 at 6:41 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 6:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If the prophecy isn’t to be interpreted literally, there’s no way it can be ‘clear and precise.’

It actually can be interpreted literally for people who can understand Arabic. One can't hang around barefoot in scandinavia, Muhammad clearly refers to the Arabian peninsula, where the arid climate matches the description. The word destitute is a bit mistranslated, but that's the best one can offer to a non Arab speaking audience. The exact translation would be naked, to refer to people wearing few to no clothes in hot areas.  But for one to start complaing about corporations, embassies and corruption as not being mentioned in a speech directed to people living in the desert fourteen centuries ago..........

(May 15, 2020 at 6:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Don’t take it personally - all religionists want prophecies to be true, so they look and look and look until they find something that they imagine will fit the bill.  Since it never quite fits, they resort to twisted meanings to file off the rough edges (much like you’re doing here).

The prophecy presented here is really clear, it really can't be misinterpreted without resorting to some silly wordplay. How else one is supposed to understand competing to build the lengthiest buildings, which is what the original hadith exactly says.....?

Then wouldn’t it have been better (and as easily understandable to the audience) for the prophecy to read something like, ‘And you will see great princes and merchants of fabulous wealth vying...’ and so on?

But the wordplay is yours. You admit to have given a poor translation when a better one is available. 

And yes, you can indeed go barefoot in Scandinavia (I know, because I’ve done it). It seems that it would be much more difficult to go barefoot on the burning sands of Arabia.

Boru

Construction workers in Arabia don't wear steel-toed boots?  Barbaric.

Prophecies are like horoscopes. If you twist the meaning around you can make it fit.

(May 15, 2020 at 6:57 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Prophecies are like horoscopes.  If you twist the meaning around you can make it fit.

All horoscopes are prophecies, but not all prophecies are horoscopes.

Boru

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then wouldn’t it have been better (and as easily understandable to the audience) for the prophecy to read something like, ‘And you will see great princes and merchants of fabulous wealth vying...’ and so on?

The prophecy is good enough that every explanation/tafsir' of the hadith refers to inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula, check it out. Of course one would think of other ways Muhammad could have said something, you just need to account for why what he actually said is accurate......

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But the wordplay is yours. You admit to have given a poor translation when a better one is available.

I am referring to the poor translation from Arabic to English.... is that Muhammad's fault too?

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And yes, you can indeed go barefoot in Scandinavia (I know, because I’ve done it). It seems that it would be much more difficult to go barefoot on the burning sands of Arabia.

Be that as it may, one just doesn't refer to scandinavians as people hanging around bare feet.

(May 15, 2020 at 7:00 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then wouldn’t it have been better (and as easily understandable to the audience) for the prophecy to read something like, ‘And you will see great princes and merchants of fabulous wealth vying...’ and so on?

The prophecy is good enough that every explanation/tafsir' of the hadith refers to inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula, check it out. Of course one would think of other ways Muhammad could have said something, you just need to account for why what he actually said is accurate......

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But the wordplay is yours. You admit to have given a poor translation when a better one is available.

I am referring to the poor translation from Arabic to English.... is that Muhammad's fault too?

(May 15, 2020 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And yes, you can indeed go barefoot in Scandinavia (I know, because I’ve done it). It seems that it would be much more difficult to go barefoot on the burning sands of Arabia.

Be that as it may, one just doesn't refer to scandinavians as people hanging around bare feet.

Wow. That’s...desperate.

Boru

(May 15, 2020 at 6:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 6:57 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Prophecies are like horoscopes.  If you twist the meaning around you can make it fit.

All horoscopes are prophecies, but not all prophecies are horoscopes.

Boru

Quote:Have you read the prophecies of tycho dodonus?

(May 15, 2020 at 6:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 6:57 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Prophecies are like horoscopes.  If you twist the meaning around you can make it fit.

All horoscopes are prophecies, but not all prophecies are horoscopes.

Boru

Back when I got the newspaper every day it didn't escape my notice that the horoscopes were on the same page as the comics and the crossword puzzle.  The entertainment section of the paper.  

Religious prophecies are just a way of rewriting history to take credit for supposedly predicting something.

Gee, it's fun that chloroform is back.