(May 15, 2020 at 9:30 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: 1. Thought this was suppose to be about the future and seriously could have said people wore more clothes or simply described what they were wearing or just said it would be different . It amazes me you praise people of this age as smart but can't see them understanding the concept that people different age would wear different clothes , And the clothing doesn't seem to have changed that much

It is about the future, but it should be conveyed in words understandable to people back then. Just imagine someone making a genuine prophecy and starting to describe some really weird clothes in minutious detail - weird relative to his audience, that is- they won't have any clue and wouldn't be able to relate it to something they already know.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: And lots lots of other locations and it doesn't say arid . And predicting people in hot places will build tall shit doesn't require magic powers

The hadith also mentions people competing to build them.

Didn’t you say a bit ago that the terms used weren’t referring to people, but to geography?

Boru

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nothing in what you just posted gives any  modern specifics, such as modern names, modern news, modern science.

That's not a valid objection, pal. How come Muhammad would give modern specifics to people in the desert fourteen centuries ago. A prophecy should also be intelligible to them, back then, not just to us.
Imagine him describing some future event in detail, like world war II, and start using the labels Allies, Axis, Hitler, Aircraft,... etc. I bet they wouldn't be able to recall one word of his speech.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: They had tall buildings in antiquity too. "Tall" to them was relative to their time. They were not talking about modern buildings. If it were a "prophecy", not that there is any such thing, but if there were, why not names like "Sears Tower" or "Empire State Building" in those exact letter sequences?

The ancient egyptian pyramids and Taj Mahal were gigantic for their times.

Again, someone in the Arabian peninsula back then wouldn't be able to process these sequences in any meaningful way. Muhammad's words would be useless to his contemporaries. And that's not a good sign for a message supposed to be valid for all ages- including theirs.

(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: ...Muhammad's prophecy came true in the modern era, there are many skyscrapers in numerous countries belonging to the Arab league:

Evidently Muhammad failed to foretell those magnificent buildings would be designed, built and operated by infidels. Now why would that be?
Because the worthless fucks couldn't design a fucking pencil sharpener!

 Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture. Chicago.

Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. Chicago.

Foster + Partners. London.

Hazel Wong Norr. UK.

Tom write. UK.

Aedas. Hong Kong.

Khatib and Alami. Beirut.*

 

*Caught fire twice.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:38 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nothing in what you just posted gives any  modern specifics, such as modern names, modern news, modern science.

That's not a valid objection, pal. How come Muhammad would give modern specifics to people in the desert fourteen centuries ago. A prophecy should also be intelligible to them, back then, not just to us.
Imagine him describing some future event in detail, like world war II, and start using the labels Allies, Axis, Hitler, Aircraft,... etc. I bet they wouldn't be able to recall one word of his speech.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: They had tall buildings in antiquity too. "Tall" to them was relative to their time. They were not talking about modern buildings. If it were a "prophecy", not that there is any such thing, but if there were, why not names like "Sears Tower" or "Empire State Building" in those exact letter sequences?

The ancient egyptian pyramids and Taj Mahal were gigantic for their times.

Again, someone in the Arabian peninsula back then wouldn't be able to process these sequences in any meaningful way. Muhammad's words would be useless to his contemporaries. And that's not a good sign for a message supposed to be valid for all ages- including theirs.

We have a fucked up cable show here in America called "Ancient Aliens", it is basically the si fi version of the same shit you are trying to pull here. There are morons who think based on things like the Mayans and or Egyptians humans were visited by little green men in antiquity. 

What you are doing is RETROFITTING AFTER THE FACT! 

It doesn't work when you pull it, or when a Christian or Hindu or Roswell Area 51 conspiracy nut pulls it. All of it still amounts to you seeing what you want when in reality nothing is there. Just like seeing shapes in the clouds. If you really want to believe that crap badly enough, you will.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:30 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: 1. Thought this was suppose to be about the future and seriously could have said people wore more clothes or simply described what they were wearing or just said it would be different . It amazes me you praise people of this age as smart but can't see them understanding the concept that people different age would wear different clothes , And the clothing doesn't seem to have changed that much

It is about the future, but it should be conveyed in words understandable to people back then. Just imagine someone making a genuine prophecy and starting to describe some really weird clothes in minutious detail - weird relative to his audience, that is- they won't have any clue and wouldn't be able to relate it to something they already know.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: And lots lots of other locations and it doesn't say arid . And predicting people in hot places will build tall shit doesn't require magic powers

The hadith also mentions people competing to build them.

1. Once again the concept of people wearing different clothes at different times WOULD be  something they would understand .Furthermore people can relate to it . And as i pointed out nothing i have seen shows the clothing to be that much different. And you people to little credit at the ability to understand descriptions nor are the clothes in picture een hard to describe in term they would understand . Hell i could probably do it .

2. Yup competitions on tall buildings happen everywhere .Now and back in ancient times .

---

Quote:That's not a valid objection, pal. How come Muhammad would give modern specifics to people in the desert fourteen centuries ago. A prophecy should also be intelligible to them, back then, not just to us.
Imagine him describing some future event in detail, like world war II, and start using the labels Allies, Axis, Hitler, Aircraft,... etc. I bet they wouldn't be able to recall one word of his speech.

Once again you seem to think people are to stupid to either describe new things or understand them (but skyscraper and high rise conveniently don't count )

Quote:Again, someone in the Arabian peninsula back then wouldn't be able to process these sequences in any meaningful way. Muhammad's words would be useless to his contemporaries. And that's not a good sign for a message supposed to be valid for all ages- including theirs.

Again you seem to think people are imbeciles

Good predictions involve math, algebra, geometry, physics, quantum physics. 

"This ancient character I like said things I like" only means you like what they said.

The ancient greeks were the first to coin the word "atom". But  back then, it did not have the modern scientific meaning it has now. They didn't know back then what protons/electrons/neutrons/quarks or neutrinos were. Back then to them, it only meant, "The smallest things one can imagine."

So when you talk about buildings, every damned society worldwide was building buildings at the time. But nobody had any damned clue how big they could get in modern times.

The holy books of every religion worldwide back then were written for the audiences of that time.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:30 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: It is about the future, but it should be conveyed in words understandable to people back then. Just imagine someone making a genuine prophecy and starting to describe some really weird clothes in minutious detail - weird relative to his audience, that is- they won't have any clue and wouldn't be able to relate it to something they already know.


The hadith also mentions people competing to build them.

Didn’t you say a bit ago that the terms used weren’t referring to people, but to geography?

Boru

It's whatever he needs it to mean to fit his desired conclusion 

He thinks people are too stupid to understand new things. Like a slightly different clothing style  

Quote:The style of costume worn throughout the Middle East has been remarkably constant for centuries. This is partly because it has evolved as one suited to the climate, serving as a protection against heat, dust, and blazing sunshine. The wearing of traditional clothing has also been accepted and supported by many Muslim countries.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/dress-c...th-century

(May 15, 2020 at 9:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Good predictions involve math, algebra, geometry, physics, quantum physics.

No, pal. They don't. We could've called quarks, gluons, bosons, cartesian coordinates, carbon, einsteinium... etc. something else. All these labels and constructs are ad hoc choices. You're asking for a prophecy containing modern specifics close to these ad hoc choices, and I explained to you that this prophecy is useless to people hearing it.

In brief, you're asking for something logically impossible - a valid prophecy using modern specifics and understandable to people who lived before these specifics were even created - and you complain when you don't get it.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: So when you talk about buildings, every damned society worldwide was building buildings at the time. But nobody had any damned clue how big they could get in modern times.

And the hadith refers specifically to the fact that people will compete in building higher and higher buildings in a specific area -what nobody had any damned clue about. Back then, they usually competed about conquering the largest lands, or winning poetry challenges. I really don't know what Muhammad could've said more to make this prophecy clearer to you, while remaining intelligible to people hearing him back then.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:57 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Didn’t you say a bit ago that the terms used weren’t referring to people, but to geography?

Boru

It's whatever he needs it to mean to fit his desired conclusion 

He thinks people are too stupid to understand new things

Yep, that is what I mean by, "Retrofitting after the fact."

My late friend Bob used to joke about this bad logic with rain filling up a pothole, "Isn't that amazing how the rain fits the hole?"

(May 15, 2020 at 9:06 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: And we're back to ad hoc objections again.

The hadith doesn't say construction workers should be bare feet. The labels (naked, destitute, barefoot, camel, shepherds) only refer to a geographical area with arid climate, the Arabian peninsula matches the description.

The hadith doesn't say they would be the first ones to build tall buildings.

It doesn't say people now in Saudi Arabia and such would be naked.

So stop the strawmans and deal with the facts: Muhammad does get it right, every time.

You said the hadith talked about "length", nothing about tall or higher, that's your (an) interpretation.

What about a very long single story building? How about a building with a lengthy perimeter? Both of these would be a better fit for the construction at that time.

You're just making shit up to fit one very small part of a fantasy story. There is nothing clear or precise about this.

It's really sad that you seem need this to justify your life.

Unless you're a POE, which actually makes more sense because it's hard to believe that someone could be this desperate.