(June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You think that god created me, but it remains a fact that I'm an atheist...I don't believe in or have any gods at all.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:04 am)Rahn127 Wrote: Part of the definition of Superman is that he is a fictional character.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You think that god created me, but it remains a fact that I'm an atheist...I don't believe in or have any gods at all.

What you believe has no bearing on God's existence. Either God exists or He doesn't. If He exists, then you were created by Him and for a purpose. That would make Him your God and creator. Whether or not you decide to worship Him or follow Him doesn't change the fact that He'd be your God if He actually exists.

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(June 2, 2020 at 9:04 am)Rahn127 Wrote: Part of the definition of Superman is that he is a fictional character.

You seem to be still missing the point.

If Superman wasn't fiction, then he'd have properties like invulnerability, heat vision, flight, etc.

If God exists, then He'd be maximally powerful, necessary, immaterial, omniscient, etc.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:14 am)Rahn127 Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote: What you believe has no bearing on God's existence. Either God exists or He doesn't. If He exists, then you were created by Him and for a purpose. That would make Him your God and creator. Whether or not you decide to worship Him or follow Him doesn't change the fact that He'd be your God if He actually exists.

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You seem to be still missing the point.

If Superman wasn't fiction, then he'd have properties like invulnerability, heat vision, flight, etc.

If God exists, then He'd be maximally powerful, necessary, immaterial, omniscient, etc.

Do you believe a god exists ?

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote: You seem to be still missing the point.

If Superman wasn't fiction, then he'd have properties like invulnerability, heat vision, flight, etc.

If God exists, then He'd be maximally powerful, necessary, immaterial, omniscient, etc.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You think that god created me, but it remains a fact that I'm an atheist...I don't believe in or have any gods at all.

What you believe has no bearing on God's existence. Either God exists or He doesn't. If He exists, then you were created by Him and for a purpose. That would make Him your God and creator. Whether or not you decide to worship Him or follow Him doesn't change the fact that He'd be your God if He actually exists.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:34 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote: You seem to be still missing the point.

If Superman wasn't fiction, then he'd have properties like invulnerability, heat vision, flight, etc.

If God exists, then He'd be maximally powerful, necessary, immaterial, omniscient, etc.

And yet.. still no evidence that you definitions are anything more than definitions.

I think it's reasonable to assume that a maximally powerful .. (add any super attributes here....) that wants us to know him and be saved could do better than convincing more than a third of theists that he is the one.

And even then can't convince that third how they should worship him ,and what is and isn't true about him.

Almost as if.....

(June 2, 2020 at 9:36 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am)brokenreflector Wrote: What you believe has no bearing on God's existence. Either God exists or He doesn't. If He exists, then you were created by Him and for a purpose. That would make Him your God and creator. Whether or not you decide to worship Him or follow Him doesn't change the fact that He'd be your God if He actually exists.

Whether or not a god exists or created me just doesn't concern me in the slightest.  As I've said, you can assume all of that and you won't have moved your god a single inch towards being my god.  

While my not believing in gods doesn't have any necessary relationship to whether or not there are gods, my beliefs are the only thing that has anything to do with whether or not your god is my god.

I'm the only person who has any say in that whatsoever, in fact.  Since we're assuming that there is a god, and that this god created me, it stands to reason that the author of creation and humanity would understand this, even if you can't accept it.  Don't you think?

(May 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm)brokenreflector Wrote: By God I mean a necessary, non-physical, and personal being who created all things: seen, unseen, discovered, and undiscovered. Being a Christian, I believe God is more than that, but this post is about the general concept of God.

Ask yourself this question: What are the plausible explanations for the origin of all things? It seems to me that we're left with the following explanations:

First explanation. Ultimately, nonbeing produced being. The problem with this explanation should be obvious. How could nonbeing produce being? What would be producing it? Nonbeing is the absence of any kind of existence.

Second explanation. Something is past-eternal. This something could be the universe, multiverse, or one of its constituents. Or it could be something else entirely. Let's call it X. X would need to exist and there was never a point where the proposition "X exists" was false.

The second explanation gets rid of the problem of nonbeing producing being and there doesn't seem to be any glaring issue with it. Issues arise only if you're an atheist. Put simply, atheists do not believe that God exists. There are many flavors of atheism and ways that people spin the word, but this is what it really comes down to. If an atheist chooses to accept the second explanation, then they're forced to believe that something eternal exists, but it's not God. Typically, atheists who choose this second explanation will believe that the universe or multiverse is eternal. But the idea that the universe is eternal is logically incoherent and not to mention against what contemporary scientific evidence suggests. For the latter, I refer you to a certain point of a debate between philosopher Dr. William Lane Craig and physicist Dr. Lawrence Krauss (https://youtu.be/mj4nbL53I-E?t=5408). Despite being a staunch and vocal atheist, Dr. Krauss begrudgingly admits in this YouTube clip that contemporary scientific evidence points to the universe being past-finite.

Going back to the logical problem with the second explanation, the incoherence stems from the implications of an eternal universe. If the universe is indeed eternal, then that means our universe has already been through an actually infinite number of changes or processes, all leading up to the present. Otherwise, the present wouldn't be occurring. But how did an infinite amount of changes already transpire? The fact that these changes were traversed seems to suggest that they're finite rather than infinite. This seems to be a big problem for the atheist.

I argue that in order for the second explanation to work, God must be the eternal cause. This is because God doesn't go through changes. He's not made up of parts or processes. He's non-physical or immaterial. Therefore, God being past-eternal doesn't lead to the same implausible implication that an actually infinite number of changes has already transpired.

(June 2, 2020 at 9:39 am)brokenreflector Wrote:

(June 2, 2020 at 9:36 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Whether or not a god exists or created me just doesn't concern me in the slightest.  As I've said, you can assume all of that and you won't have moved your god a single inch towards being my god.  

While my not believing in gods doesn't have any necessary relationship to whether or not there are gods, my beliefs are the only thing that has anything to do with whether or not your god is my god.

I'm the only person who has any say in that whatsoever, in fact.  Since we're assuming that there is a god, and that this god created me, it stands to reason that the author of creation and humanity would understand this, even if you can't accept it.  Don't you think?

Nah, sorry bro. If God exists, then He created you and is therefore your creator and God. You better start crying into your pillow now.