(July 16, 2020 at 10:27 am)Gnomey Wrote: There may only be so many fish in your pond, but those fish change over time, in the same way you change over time. If I had met my fish five years ago, we would NOT have worked, and I'd have assumed that fish would never be for me.

I agree with this.

Quote:Another thing: relationships are about two people.

I agree with this too.

Quote:So, while they may have been perfect for you, you may not have been perfect for them (though I'm sure you're perfect for someone!!).

I agree with this. But it may also be the case that I'm the best they will ever get just like they will be the best I will ever get.

Quote: If you weren't perfect for them, they're definitely not perfect for you.

I agree with this but I don't believe in absolute perfection. To me "perfect for me" just means "the best I will ever get".

Quote:There are also ways of exploring new ponds, or expanding the one you're in!

Well, I don't think that I can explore new ponds or expand the one I am in because I am defining the pond as all the water that I will explore in my lifetime relationship-wise.

Quote: The internet is a wonderful thing, my friend. You might also want to try to adjust the way you look at relationships. It's tempting to rate the people you've been with on the "perfect for me or not" scale. But instead, if you just see them as different, you might find a new perspective. Comparing people to each other may not be the way to go.

It's possible that I could find somebody else who was just as good for me but in a different way. But I don't think it's remotely likely.

Like, if I was to make a single criticism of my loved one it would be that she is perhaps not disagreeable enough. But she's so perfect in every other way, and it's so much better than somebody who can't handle disagreements with me which is all my other friends and relationships, that I don't consider it even a flaw. Because, like I said, I don't believe in absolute perfection. I discount that as a flaw when it's the only one I can think of and it's so minor that it basically doesn't count because there's no way I'll find anybody slightly more disagreeable who is overall better than her. Everything else about her is 100% perfect to me and she's only lacking in disagreeability by something like 1%. Like, she doesn't enjoy debates, etc. I could imagine enjoying debates with a girlfriend. But I can't imagine that girlfriend having enough of the other wonderful qualities that she has. There's just no way I'll ever meet anybody better than her. It's logically possible. But it's so incredibly unlikely.

Okay, let me ask a more specific question. Hypothetically, if you were to accept my premise that I really will never meet somebody as wonderful for me as her ... then what?

What you're describing as perfect is someone that fits with you like a puzzle piece. If you took 1 piece from every 1000 piece puzzle ever created how many to you think would pair up? Actually quite a lot because the dies used to cut are fairly similar and prevalent. People are the same way. You can have people that fit your holes. You can have people that match your picture. You can have people that are close enough on both regards. Whether they're "perfect" is extremely unlikely as the sampling size, time and place are so great. It is easier because humans are tribal that your "perfect" match is within your social sphere of influence. None of us are perfect. That doesn't mean a relationship can't be wonderful, beneficial, useful or lasting if it isn't perfect, which is the direction your logic is leading. Celebrate the differences in others and build lasting relationships in your life. Sorry you are dealing with a loss, but it sounds like your definition of the "perfect love for me" doesn't include someone that loves and accepts you equally as much. That could be problematic long term, all other things being equal. /2 cents

@tackattack

But that's just it, TA, (is it okay if I call you TA?)---the sampling size isn't so great ... because, say, if I have 10 relationships in my life that is still a very small sample size.

tack, TA, dave.. whatever, I'm not picky.

You're looking at the wrong sampling. How many people to you know and come into contact with in a single year? Of that your relationships with them are of what magnitude, 1/9999 ?
The problem is not that when we focus our attention on what we can will or control it comes from a narrowing of vision. You're putting on blinders for those 10 relationships to the 100000 other relationships you could be having, because of our ability to only focus on such a small area we can socially control. That's the definition of what "many fish in the sea" is all about. It's not you and your 5 relationships in a little pond, it's 5 little fish swimming in a group in a school of fish in a vast sea of life. We can only see our little pond though. Opening up to the possibilities that those minutes coffee conversations with a stranger could lead to lifetime of contentment and happiness is what you're blinded to. To answer your question... regardless of the other topics you asked "then what?" My answer is to open yourself to possibilities and engage with people in your life, lots of them (and not just the ones you're comfortable with). Get uncomfortably close and personal, test the waters, give, seek, love, learn and grow.

(July 16, 2020 at 11:20 am)tackattack Wrote: tack, TA, dave.. whatever, I'm not picky.

You're looking at the wrong sampling. How many people to you know and come into contact with in a single year? Of that your relationships with them are of what magnitude, 1/9999 ?
The problem is not that when we focus our attention on what we can will or control  it comes from a narrowing of vision. You're putting on blinders for those 10 relationships to the 100000 other relationships you could be having, because of our ability to only focus on such a small area we can socially control. That's the definition of what "many fish in the sea" is all about. It's not you and your 5 relationships in a little pond, it's 5 little fish swimming in a group in a school of fish in a vast sea of life. We can only see our little pond though. Opening up to the possibilities that those  minutes coffee conversations with a stranger could lead to lifetime of contentment and happiness is what you're blinded to. To answer your question... regardless of the other topics you asked "then what?" My answer is to open yourself to possibilities and engage with people in your life, lots of them (and not just the ones you're comfortable with).  Get uncomfortably close and personal, test the waters, give, seek, love, learn and grow.

I'm rather confused and don't think I follow but perhaps it's because I'm a determinist?

I'm saying that I certainly don't expect to have more than 10 meaningful relationships in my life. So 10 is the maximum sample size. It seems that the sample size is hugely bigger from your POV because you see multiple branching pathways and many possible futures rather than just one possible future.

I could be wrong, but please let me know if I have understood you correctly.

You don't expect to have time in your entire life for more than 10 meaningful relationships. I get that. 10 out of how many possible relationships could you have 100,000? The ting about a "meaningful relationship" is it's not an object that starts that way. It starts off as a relationship and grows more meaningful.

It's not which of those 10 meaningful relationships was the perfect/best one. It's which of those 100,000 relationships did you invest enough in to make it meaningful.

(July 16, 2020 at 11:35 am)tackattack Wrote: You don't expect to have time in your entire life for more than 10 meaningful relationships. I get that. 10 out of how many possible relationships could you have 100,000? The ting about a "meaningful relationship" is it's not an object that starts that way. It starts off as a relationship and grows more meaningful.

It's not which of those 10 meaningful relationships was the perfect/best one. It's which of those 100,000 relationships did you invest enough in to make it meaningful.

Thank you for the thoughts but I am still not following. I still would like to know if it's a fair assessment of what you're saying to point out that you see the 10 relationships branching off into 100,000 possible ones because you're not a determinist.

Because to me, as a determinist, if I can expect to have about a maximum of 10 actual relationships then I can expect to have about a maximum of 10 possible relationships.

(July 16, 2020 at 10:40 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote: But I can't imagine that girlfriend having enough of the other wonderful qualities that she has. There's just no way I'll ever meet anybody better than her. It's logically possible. But it's so incredibly unlikely.

Okay, let me ask a more specific question. Hypothetically, if you were to accept my premise that I really will never meet somebody as wonderful for me as her ... then what?

Remember, you change too! Someone who's "perfect" for you now may not be perfect for future you. In the future, you may meet someone perfect for future you, and she may be completely different than the person who was perfect for present you.

But, to answer your question. Let's say you never find a match as perfect for any version of you as the one you've lost.

You carry on.

Just because your next person isn't perfect for you, doesn't mean you won't find meaning in a relationship with them. Or, if you choose to remain single, you'll find happiness and meaning in that.

Life, for me, is about living. It's about the experiences you have,. It's about learning and loving and getting your heart broken and putting the pieces back together. Take every experience as it comes, as it is. It's only a bad or sad experience if we label it that way - and having bad and sad experiences isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just a part of life. I think we become more complete, complex, interesting people if we have a wide variety of experiences behind us.

I think finding and losing someone you love dearly is an experience we've all had, or will have. If you stayed with your "perfect person," one day she would die and leave you alone. Or, you would die and leave her alone. So we all lose our loved one at some point; I think the important thing is to appreciate them when you have them. Then when they're gone, you can be happy knowing you were able to have the experience of being with them.

Then you can approach your next relationship (or your eternal singleness) in the same way - appreciate the experience in and of itself. Even if it isn't as "good" an experience as the one with the person you've lost; all experiences have value. Good and bad. They add up to the greater sum that is you and your life.

(July 16, 2020 at 12:05 pm)Gnomey Wrote: Someone who's "perfect" for you now may not be perfect for future you. In the future, you may meet someone perfect for future you.

This is the most profound thing I've read on this thread. Bar none. Now you've actually got me pondering rather than merely analyzing (my default state). Thank you!

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(July 16, 2020 at 12:05 pm)Gnomey Wrote: Just because your next person isn't perfect for you, doesn't mean you won't find meaning in a relationship with them. Or, if you choose to remain single, you'll find happiness and meaning in that.

This is very wise. I also agree with it and my worrying about Future Me goes against my views on personal identity.

I guess it's just the case that irrational sadness about the past and irrational sadness about the future will either pass eventually or it won't. I am a great believer in fate, not in any hocus-pocus 'The One' way, but in a determinist way. And shooting what I already believe in back at me, in your own words, helps me ponder and also helps me disabuse myself of discontentment. Thank you once again.

(July 16, 2020 at 10:22 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 10:08 am)possibletarian Wrote: Most of all, never forget to tell them how you feel about them everyday.

For me, I'm more likely to tell them too often.

There are lots of ways to say 'I love you' to a person without it being too often, it can be a smile, that you put their needs first, you gave up something, or asking them to take care when they go to work.

Words and actions work together.