(July 27, 2020 at 2:00 am)SUNGULA Wrote:

(July 27, 2020 at 1:57 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Didn't exist as a community before the 20th century?

Is it because they were persecuted and hounded before that time and throughout the 20th and 21st centuries, or perhaps they just kept their existence quiet?

There was no feminist community/movement before the mid to late 19th century.  Or was there.

Even if these two groups didn't have communities before this time, does that make their existence now any less relevant?

To put it another way, there was no Islam before the 3rd/4th century.  So by this logic, Islam has no relevance.

Considering this guys a sock (one who's already been banned ) and a troll are we really surprised .

May not be around too much longer.

(July 27, 2020 at 3:38 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(July 27, 2020 at 2:00 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Considering this guys a sock (one who's already been banned ) and a troll are we really surprised .

May not be around too much longer.

Okay 

An educator worth his salt won’t take such a thesis remotely seriously.

(July 27, 2020 at 3:38 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(July 27, 2020 at 2:00 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Considering this guys a sock (one who's already been banned ) and a troll are we really surprised .

May not be around too much longer.

This individual is repeatedly accusing me of being a “sock” which I suppose means a previously banned member of this forum. However, as I pointed out earlier, this is an untrue and malicious accusation, a crude attempt to silence the intellectual pearls I have been dropping left, right and center. It would be a terrible shame if my voice were to be silenced rather than responded to intellectually.

Intellectual pearls, now that’s rich.

Or a fact that's obvious to everyone here 

He mistakes mouse tards for pearls and were cleaning house

At work.

(July 27, 2020 at 3:41 am)Cherub19 Wrote: This individual is repeatedly accusing me of being a “sock” which I suppose means a previously banned member of this forum. However, as I pointed out earlier, this is an untrue and malicious accusation, a crude attempt to silence the intellectual pearls I have been dropping left, right and center. It would be a terrible shame if my voice were to be silenced rather than responded to intellectually.

Pearls?

Really?

You honestly think that the thinly vineered fingerpaintings of semantic diarreah are some how examples of some much vaunted wisdom?

Fek me what a waste of energy.

We are brought that much more closer to the heat death of reality thanks to shaft suckers like yourself taking up valuable bandwidth posting such vapid excrement of words.

(July 27, 2020 at 3:24 am)Cherub19 Wrote:

I’m really looking for an episode in history in which gays were persecuted.

There were times and places where an accusation of sodomy could ruin your life. Whether that meets your definition of "persecution" or not I don't know.

Quote:

And I believe your statement “this isn’t a community in the sense we’re using it now” has concluded the debate on this topic decisively in my favor. Thank you.

If people now use the word "community" to refer to a group with a consistent ethnicity or orientation which work together for political goals, then I don't think the gay community met those criteria until recently. 

I also don't think it's quite the definitive win you're looking for.

Quote:planned and guided all along by an unseen hand

And let me guess -- it's the Jews, right?

No, the idea that there is a secret cabal gradually handing out equal rights for nefarious reasons is foolishness. 

That said, I do think that many of what we consider to be advances have come about for economic reasons, not moral ones. 

So for example, we are all happy that women have the choice to enter the workplace on an equal footing with men. (Or we're getting there.) This came about partly because of increasing enlightenment, but also because employers figured out that if they doubled the workforce, they could pay less. The result has been that single-worker families used to live comfortably because the worker (usually a man) was paid enough for the whole family to live, but now both people in a couple have to work to have the same standard of living. Benefits have been cut and real wages have fallen, and now women have the freedom to work or starve just as men used to. 

There is something similar happening with gay people, too. By recognizing gay marriage and equal opportunities, gay people are allowed full participation in the economic life. They can take out a mortgage and buy life insurance just like straights. There are of course advantages for the gay people, but it may be that the people selling the mortgages and insurance benefit more, which is partly why it's come about. 

Compare this with what Gide wrote about gay life in Paris. (And what I know of gay life in Tokyo.) It was an alternative to the standard bourgeois life. Granted, it was an alternative that was partly forced on people, but Gide among others recognized that the gay life -- the gay community, as it then was -- was something different and in some ways more sincere, just because it was chosen, at some risk, and not the standard default. 

I saw a documentary about the gay scene in Tokyo post-war, and they interviewed the proprietor of one of the oldest gay bars, where Mishima and others used to drink. They asked him if it wasn't terrible in the old days when you had to hide your orientation. And he answered, "u-tsu-ku-shi-katta." "It was beautiful." 

By drawing same-sex couples into standard bourgeois life, something is gained but something is lost. Equal rights are always a great thing, and gay marriage is supported by all sane people. But alternatives are important too.

At work.

I don't normally kick people when they're down. Or in this case banned.

But in the case of Cherub the jizz licker I'll make an exception.

So to sum up this sump of a redirection all we got was, "I think. I think. I think." Along with, 'Oh. Let me redefine and misuse a word to try an shore up the personal (And adimttedly reinforced by their belief system) ideas which I'll continue to espouse.'

Even in the face of repeated well presented rebuttals.

I hope Eleven's thread shifts out of the gutter that scrotum fondler Cherub tried to dumpster fire it into.

Much cheers, best health and well wishes to all.

Tinklebell: an old gay man who has trouble peeing.