(August 8, 2020 at 10:12 am)Xaventis Wrote: What evidence would convince you that th bible is false?

What exactly do you require and on what area?

A better question is why does it matter if some people believe the Bible is true?

As long as they're not those types of apologists who come to places like here and be all "insulting" with their arrogance and false humility (or IRL where they want others to be impacted by their religious beliefs in a way that inconveniences those others), I don't really care.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm)brewer Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 12:30 pm)Xaventis Wrote: Human brains seem to be emotionally hard wired to create a god concept

I absolutely disagree with this. You can not do a valid experiment by taking examples of religious families where the children are indoctrinated into a god existing from birth.

especially that no one makes up new gods all the time. Surprisingly after polytheism ended humans have only 1 god and find the idea of multiple gods ridiculous. The same will be true if monotheism is ridiculed like polytheism was. Sure you get some crazies who start worshiping the Norse gods because they liked the Marvel movies however this is not some hard wired thing its simply people being impressed this time by movies not indoctrination.

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(August 8, 2020 at 1:22 pm)Grandizer Wrote: A better question is why does it matter if some people believe the Bible is true?

Because believing false things is wrong. Unless the religionists want to say that they are obsessed with believing lies and telling lies all the time, (and this is a fantastical discussion for another time).

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(August 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm)brewer Wrote: You started out with the bible is false, then moved on to god is false.

Its one subject "what evidence do you require to abandon your religion or consider it false" considering that the bible and christienaity are intertwined its the same question since this will move to the subject of the bible.

I yet have to see any christian who would say that if its proven that the bible is a pack of lies he will still believe in god.

Comes to atheist forum to ask Christians a question.

Interesting...sort of.

Color me skeptical.

I think a good starting point would always be to address the Bible as Christians understand it. Arguments often fall to the ground when atheists attempt to dismantle a belief I don't hold; or when they attempt to convince me that the Bible teaches something I don't believe, in order to then debunk it. This has strawman undertones. It's important to avoid cartoonish representations and address the Bible as a particular Christian understands it.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:42 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Comes to atheist forum to ask Christians a question.

Interesting...sort of.

Color me skeptical.

I was under the impression that this is the "Debate Christians" section? Are there no local Christians who get debated here?
I'm new.

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(August 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I think a good starting point would always be to address the Bible as Christians understand it.

Only in reality the bible has no real understanding all of it is nonsensical stories, the parts that are super specific and clear like the OT with its laws for washing or what food to eat are disregarded by Christians.
Christians quote passages out of context and glue together some attempt to find quotes that if you look the right way while you are drunk you can read it to support whatever the verbal religion of the christian is.

Its mostly about whatever verbal things the parents/church/pastor indoctrinated the child into not what the bible says.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I think a good starting point would always be to address the Bible as Christians understand it.

I think this was also included in my question, the christian needs to say what it takes for me to prove his religion false for him.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:26 pm)Xaventis Wrote: I absolutely disagree with this. You can not do a valid experiment by taking examples of religious families where the children are indoctrinated into a god existing from birth.

especially that no one makes up new gods all the time. Surprisingly after polytheism ended humans have only 1 god and find the idea of multiple gods ridiculous. The same will be true if monotheism is ridiculed like polytheism was. Sure you get some crazies who start worshiping the Norse gods because they liked the Marvel movies however this is not some hard wired thing its simply people being impressed this time by movies not indoctrination.

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Its one subject "what evidence do you require to abandon your religion or consider it false" considering that the bible and christienaity are intertwined its the same question since this will move to the subject of the bible.

I yet have to see any christian who would say that if its proven that the bible is a pack of lies he will still believe in god.

Bold 1: Then you need to educate yourself.

Bold 2: The concept of a god and the story of a god are not the same. There are several stories of the one particular god you seem to be referencing.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:26 pm)Xaventis Wrote: Because believing false things is wrong.

Christians would probably agree with this. The key here is they have different criteria for truth from what you do. If there's one thing I've come to realize after years of debating with people online (and IRL), it's that it's more productive to explain why you don't accept what they believe to be true rather than aim/hope to persuade them into abandoning what they believe. If you think it's wrong that they be Christian, you should let this be their problem, not yours. In the meantime you can focus on improving your critical thinking skills: examine the criteria for truth you actually hold to, question them, read books/articles by thinkers of all sorts and stripes (especially those you disagree with), challenge your currently held views with what you see to be strong counter arguments and argue back against those if you can, adjust views when appropriate. Years from now, you are going to see a lot of views discarded even as an atheist, and perhaps not just views being changed but also one's attitude on things such as religion.

(August 8, 2020 at 1:59 pm)Xaventis Wrote: I think this was also included in my question, the christian needs to say what it takes for me to prove his religion false for him.

My particular denomination believes that when a person dies they're dead. There's no soul or spirit that outlives the physical brain. Falsifying this belief would begin to prove my religion wrong to me.

(August 8, 2020 at 2:15 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Christians would probably agree with this. The key here is they have different criteria for truth from what you do.

The " different criteria" is nothing more then them asserting that god exists. They assert this because their parents/pastor/church indoctrinated them into this, to defend this assertion they will go full crazy and semi seriously entertain the most far out there and unreasonable theories.

This is why I cut to the end let them tell me what would disprove their religion. There is no real point in debating with someone who at the end will go:
>Yes, Yes quite convincing, however I simply assert that we live in the matrix(empiricism is false) and every thing we see is fake, therefore god is real.

(August 8, 2020 at 11:32 am)Xaventis Wrote:

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I sure know what would change my mind if it comes to the existence of god. All god needs to do is show himself to me, hang out for 1 year with me fly around across the universe create some galaxies, and I would talk to him about theology and have lots of questions. 

I'm curious why you think God is a thing that does this sort of stuff. 

I don't know what the Christians in your family think, but serious thinkers have never described God in the way you're imagining. Maybe you're thinking of Superman, instead?

If you were to read the descriptions of God by, for example, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, Hobbes, Newton, Spinoza, Tillich, etc. etc. etc., you would see that the image you've dreamed up has nothing to do with how smart people believe in God.

What you've done is set up an easy proof based on a false image. It's like a Creationist who says he'd happily believe in the theory of evolution as soon as he sees a monkey give birth to a human. He can be confident he'll never see proof, because he's thinking of something that the theory doesn't really say.