They created their Gods in a similar way that people create super heroes... They probably just thought "well, wouldn't it be cool if....."

(October 26, 2011 at 9:52 am)frankiej Wrote: They created their Gods in a similar way that people create super heroes... They probably just thought "well, wouldn't it be cool if....."

"Daddy will pick up the tab for the rest of our lives and we don't have to think ever again??"

(October 26, 2011 at 9:52 am)frankiej Wrote: They created their Gods in a similar way that people create super heroes... They probably just thought "well, wouldn't it be cool if....."

......I had a few extra arms.

(October 26, 2011 at 9:52 am)frankiej Wrote: "well, wouldn't it be cool if.....

....I actually am ethnically superior to the rest of these heathens by cosmic mandate."

In defense of the article writer *wait, let me put my horns on...hold on a second* there is a certain degree of confusion within the general population with the definition of an atheist and the difference between god and religion.

Distinguishing between an Athiest and an unaffiliated person.The label "Atheist" is self explanitory. It literally means no religion but I have observed that there is a vast pool of people who are apathetic about what they believe. Religion and religious beliefs are not as important as getting to work on time, what salad dressing to use or the possibility of their soccer team winning. Don't get me wrong I don't find fault with these people I am pointing out that they exist. I am also pointing out that some theists (and some unafiliated people) confuse these people with people who have made a conscious choice not to have religion or believe in a supernatural being i.e. the atheists. In the words of the "Rush" song "Frewill (as I recall)? it says "You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice, if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice (technically speaking this is true. choosing not to decide is usually just not a deliberate choice).......I will choose frewill. Choosing freewill is a deliberate conscious choice.

Confusing god and religion: The other condition that seems to exist is that many people confuse god and religion. God/gods/spirits etc refer to supernatural beings. Religion is the structure of beliefs and practices set up to deal with these beings. In many religions various sects/denominations etc can agree that they believe in the same supernatural being but not agree on how to deal with this being (they disagree on religious practices and or structure). This is an example of how a religious structure can exist separately from a supernatural being. In the same way one can own a car but you can believe either that your car should be spotless and clean and not smell bad or you can believe that your car is a place to eat, sleep, and store all your worldly possessions in (a situation that naturally leads to a mess). It's the same car just different beliefs about how to treat a car.

Is it god? There are many people who don't practice religion but when something shitty happens to them they blame a supernatural source instead of leaving the causality to randomness or perhaps a mistake or a character flaw within themselves. I know many unafilliated people who shake their fist at the sky.

Is it religion? I know other people who hate a supernatural being because someone from a particular religion that claims to worship this supernatural being was a dick to them. There are religious people who aren't dicks. If one religion can have both dicks and non dicks then I would venture to say that these people must be acting independently from their supernatural being. This makes it easy to identify the cause of their dick like behavior. Are they dicks because they are selfish bastards who have independently interpreted their religious doctrine (the structure) to justify their behavior? Or, if they interpret their doctrine to mean "thou shalt not be a dick", then are they just generally dicks who consciously know that they are violating their religious doctrine when they exhibit dick like behavior? To be a dick or not to be a dick. Whether it is nobler in mind to interpret your religion to justify your dick like behavior or suffer the slings and arrows and be a sinner. This is the question. God I love to mess up Hamelet...I digress

Conclusion. These two conditions; the confusion between unafiliated people and atheists, and a confusion between a supernatural being and religion can account for the illogical notion that atheists (those who have made a conscious choice not to have a religin or believe in a supreme being) hate God. After all you have to have some sort of belief in a supernatural being in order to be mad at it. Athiests (the one's without spaghetti for brains) put the blame for shit where it lies, In randomness or some sort of provable cause like, for example, it's their own damn fault.

There may be more than those two conditions (and more nuance within the two you decided to take up), and your assessment of what atheism is or means may not be accurate (not to pick bones, but explanations like that are the source of near endless amounts of asshatery from our resident soul savers). For my part, I made no conscious decision whatsoever, I didn't choose not to believe. I simply cant bring myself to believe, even though there are many things in which I wish I could manufacture belief.

(October 28, 2011 at 11:42 am)Rhythm Wrote: There may be more than those two conditions (and more nuance within the two you decided to take up), and your assessment of what atheism is or means may not be accurate.

I don't have space to address all the nuances so I just knocked out the big ones. As for the definition of the word Atheist I prefer the bare bones definition. It avoids confusion. I have defined An atheist as someone who has made a conscious choice not to believe in a supernatural being or follow a religion. Most dictionaries support this definition though they don't always parse out religion from supernatural being. How atheists live and make decisions based on these beliefs is another thing. Its what they tack onto the label. For example a car can be defined very basically by it's few functional members -for example an engine, 4 wheels and an enclosed or partially enclosed cabin for a driver. The color of the car, the amenities, add ons, and decals are not essential to the definition of car. They are an expression of how someone wants their personal car to be. The underlying structure, the underlying threads of what a car is are the same. In the same way the definition of an atheist as supported by various dictionaries, can differ from what it means personally to be an atheist. It can also be independent from any political movement. for example if there's a political atheist movement who's aim is to eliminate religion, you personally can be an atheist who also believes that religion ought to be wiped out or you can be an atheist who also believes that theists and non theists can live together in peace. Both are athiests they differ on whether they ought to extrovert or introvert their beliefs.

To analyse a thing it's useful to find it's underlying structure and build up from there. This avoids confusion with extraneous variables.

"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

"The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god""

See how proposing the idea of a "conscious choice" would muddy the waters? It would exclude myself, just as a single example. Atheism does mean that a person has no belief in god, but it makes no determinations about how one arrived at the point, conscious choice or otherwise.

Apologist mode on- "See, you have actively rejected god, prophecy is fulfilled! Hail Jesus!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

(October 28, 2011 at 12:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

"The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god""

See how proposing the idea of a "conscious choice" would muddy the waters? It would exclude myself, just as a single example. Atheism does mean that a person has no belief in god, but it makes no determinations about how one arrived at the point, conscious choice or otherwise.

Apologist mode on- "See, you have actively rejected god, prophecy is fulfilled! Hail Jesus!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

I was trying to narrow the definition of athiest to someone who does not believe in god or follow a religion. I needed to do this to distinguish this from someone who has not made this conscious choice...an unaffiliated person. Narrowing the definition eliminates chiding from theists who point the finger at you and say "hee hee you really do believe in God because in order to hate god you must believe in him. You are so illogical, gosh you are stupid......blah blah blah". Generally speaking I have never known anyone who has made a conscious choice not to believe in a supreme being or follow a religion hate God. It is illogical. They put blame for shit that happens to them where it lies. I have seen plenty of people who have not made the conscious choice to not believe or follow a religion hate god. Yes I am putting a blame on them. My disclaimer is that I don't hate unaffiliated people who have not made conscious choice to believe or not to believe...I after all fall within this category to some degree. I am just pointing out that specifically atheists, as I have been defining them, are not acting illogically with regards to god as their accusers say. They are innocent of this accusation. I went further to give what I think is a possible theory as to the probable cause for the confusion.

No worries bud, just offering a taste of the usual fare round these parts. The trouble with defining who or what an atheist is in one definition is that we have no holy texts from which to make these distinctions. Counterpoint that with theists, who despite having such texts still elude easy classification, not that they ever seem eager to correct their texts where their beliefs are different in even the slightest of ways. That would poison their own well.

"Without gods" seems to be the only thing that could be said of atheists at large. Those atheists, such as myself, who made no "conscious choice" to be so wouldn't really qualify as "unaffiliated".
(Except, of course, in this specific argument and as defined by you for the purposes of this argument, I get that.)