Precidence?

.....

You know the difference between a religion and a cult, right?

In a cult - the guy at the very top knows it's all bullshit.

In a religion - that guy died...

(October 14, 2020 at 2:08 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Precidence?

.....

You know the difference between a religion and a cult, right?

In a cult - the guy at the very top knows it's all bullshit.

In a religion - that guy died...

No, ‘precedent’.

And the difference between a religion and a cult is how much real estate they own.

Religion: Scientology.

Cult: Saint Loony Up The Cream Bun And Jam.

Boru

(October 14, 2020 at 8:03 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Christians and Jews are going to hell according to Islam, by default:

Another laughable assertion one reads frequently, which has a lot to do with the misconception above, when one thinks about it. Someone adhering to christianity or judaism simply doesn't believe in the main tenets of Islam. Usually, christians and jews are simply nonbelievers, not kafir's, as defined above. If a christian is never presented with anything compelling him to believe that Muhammad' PBUH was the final prophet, he falls into the first category, not the second one, which is the one repudiated in the Qur'an.

Christians and Jews will go to hell according to Quran because they don't believe in Allah and everyone who disbelieves in Allah goes to hell according to Quran:

Quran Wrote:“Say to those who misbelieve, ‘You shall be overcome and driven together to Hell.… God bears witness that there is no god but He.… But whoever disbelieves in God’s signs, truly God is quick at reckoning up” (sura 3:10–19).

(October 14, 2020 at 1:43 pm)brewer Wrote: It's not about the so called prophet and what he is claimed to have done or not done.

It's about the assertion that a god exists as more than a concept of the human mind.

The existence of god is an entirely separate issue. What's compelling me to believe a personal god exists is simply the aspect of design and purpose around us, that is, the teleological arguments are the most compelling to me, and that includes our design, too, regardless of whether one accepts all aspects of evolution or not. In the end, evolution is a process. The existence of a process still warrants an explanation.

The smallest particles in the universe are governed by very precise and inescapable laws, it's somewhat insane to think that our lives don't have laws or some predetermined ideal path.

(October 14, 2020 at 2:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I'm not convinced that we can so easily discount options 2 and 3 (and shame on you for co-opting it from C.S. Lewis).

I never said it's easy to discount anything, and we don't need C.S. Lewis to figure out these three possibilities ...

Muhammad did something that Joseph Smith didn't, he came up with six thousand verses bringing up extremely varied topics, and takes the risk of correcting all the mainstream beliefs of his time, including the christian and jewish doctrines. The qur'an also contains minutious details about Joseph's life (the son of Jacob), Mary's, Jesus's, any of which could've been challenged by contemporaneous christians or jews.

Joseph Smith, knowing that he is a liar, makes it easy for himself and invents internal characters. The Book of Mormon is then an obvious fake. The character Mormon is defined internally as far as I know. Golden plates? I mean come on.

Even Mormons acknoweldge mistakes in their book:
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Quest...istakes%3F

Finding a clear cut mistake in the Qur'an is just a futile exercise. You can try.

Quote:Finding a clear cut mistake in the Qur'an is just a futile exercise. You can try.

I couldn’t agree more - you will never, EVER find a mistake in the Quran.

Boru

The Lord Liar Lunatic Argument has been refuted so many times it's not even funny . Even most serious apologists don't use it anymore

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(October 14, 2020 at 3:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Finding a clear cut mistake in the Qur'an is just a futile exercise. You can try.

I couldn’t agree more - you will never, EVER find a mistake in the Quran.

Boru

Lol yup you will never find a MISTAKE in the Quran 

(October 14, 2020 at 3:02 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(October 14, 2020 at 1:43 pm)brewer Wrote: It's not about the so called prophet and what he is claimed to have done or not done.

It's about the assertion that a god exists as more than a concept of the human mind.

The existence of god is an entirely separate issue. What's compelling me to believe a personal god exists is simply the aspect of design and purpose around us, that is, the teleological arguments are the most compelling to me, and that includes our design, too, regardless of whether one accepts all aspects of evolution or not. In the end, evolution is a process. The existence of a process still warrants an explanation.

The smallest particles in the universe are governed by very precise and inescapable laws, it's somewhat insane to think that our lives don't have laws or some predetermined ideal path.

It's not a separate issue, no god means no need for a prophet. That means the prophet either delusional or intentionally making shit up.

So magic watchmaker then, good for you, hope it works. There is nothing further for us to discuss. See ya.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:19 pm)brewer Wrote:

(October 14, 2020 at 3:02 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: The existence of god is an entirely separate issue. What's compelling me to believe a personal god exists is simply the aspect of design and purpose around us, that is, the teleological arguments are the most compelling to me, and that includes our design, too, regardless of whether one accepts all aspects of evolution or not. In the end, evolution is a process. The existence of a process still warrants an explanation.

The smallest particles in the universe are governed by very precise and inescapable laws, it's somewhat insane to think that our lives don't have laws or some predetermined ideal path.

It's not a separate issue, no god means no need for a prophet. That means the prophet either delusional or intentionally making shit up.

So magic watchmaker then, good for you, hope it works. There is nothing further for us to discuss. See ya.

Yup just keeps treading over the same dealt with nonesense . It's like arguing with a broken record. Then calls us insane

(October 14, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Christians and Jews will go to hell according to Quran because they don't believe in Allah and everyone who disbelieves in Allah goes to hell according to Quran:

Quran Wrote:“Say to those who misbelieve, ‘You shall be overcome and driven together to Hell.… God bears witness that there is no god but He.… But whoever disbelieves in God’s signs, truly God is quick at reckoning up” (sura 3:10–19).

I already explained that disbelief here doesn't have the meaning you think it has. The verse only applies if christians acknoweldge the God as described by Islam as the true God and yet refuse to worship him.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:19 pm)brewer Wrote: It's not a separate issue, no god means no need for a prophet. That means the prophet either delusional or intentionally making shit up.

I meant by separate issue that God's existence must be proven independently. The prophet being delusional is not something modern historians of Islam take seriously, if you want to seriously defend this idea, you have to be more specific about the word "delusional" and give an actual diagnosis.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:19 pm)brewer Wrote: So magic watchmaker then, good for you, hope it works. There is nothing further for us to discuss. See ya.

Okay. Were you expecting me to lay out the entire literature on teleological arguments for you?

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(October 14, 2020 at 3:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Finding a clear cut mistake in the Qur'an is just a futile exercise. You can try.

I couldn’t agree more - you will never, EVER find a mistake in the Quran.

Boru

All right. What about you ? I'll wait.

Keep repeating the same garbage . You have been crush on this site over and over and over and over . You have lost ! Get over it and go find a hobby ! 

I suggest finger painting . It suits your intellectual capacity and your tediousness tendency for mindless repetition