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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:09 pm
(November 15, 2020 at 8:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (November 15, 2020 at 8:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Do you now?
All you did was repeat yourself
(November 15, 2020 at 8:33 pm)Apollo Wrote: ...it is a discipline that makes claims—claims rooted in reality as it sees it. This is similar to making deductive inferences and forming hypothesis and theories.
Religion is not a premitive form of science because it's claims tend to be established through revelation not experimentation.
What is a revelation? It’s a claim that someone is making—Experimentation is merely refined and formal form of creating a process to ensure accuracy and replication/repetition of experiments otherwise anything can go without validity. But end goal is to make a claim—ie, come up with a theory that describes the underlying law of nature.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:17 pm
Determining how things are as opposed to asserting how they should be. Science concerns itself with the former, religion is defined by the latter.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:34 pm
(November 15, 2020 at 9:17 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Determining how things are as opposed to asserting how they should be. Science concerns itself with the former, religion is defined by the latter.
No, religion deals with first and foremost with claims of existence of god and afterlife—it is able to make such claims by deductively thinking and further hypothesizing causal relationship between natural phenomenon—kind of claims or reasoning that we now use science to make.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:41 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2020 at 9:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Belief in the existence of a god is not a religion. Belief in an afterlife is not a religion. Believing in a god and an afterlife is not a religion. Lacking any belief in gods or in afterlives doesn't mean that a thing is not a religion.
OFC we use our observations of the world around us when we decide how we're going to organize our societies. I can split the baby between you nd anom, as it were. Religion is a primitive form of governance that employed -many- primitive forms of science to buttress their normative claims.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:48 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2020 at 9:50 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(November 15, 2020 at 9:09 pm)Apollo Wrote: What is a revelation? It’s a claim that someone is making—Experimentation is merely refined and formal form of creating a process to ensure accuracy and replication/repetition of experiments otherwise anything can go without validity. But end goal is to make a claim—ie, come up with a theory that describes the underlying law of nature.
Revelation is a claim that a deity is making. If God appeared to you and told you there's a McDonald's on the other side of the moon, that's a revelation. Science is a method of uncovering such information on your own.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:51 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2020 at 9:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's nice, and if a god appeared to me, your god, I still wouldn't be a christian. The existence of a god is not a belief or practice that unites me into your moral whole.
You might have noticed that other people who believe in gods are not members of your religion..some of them believe in the same gods, even, and aren't a member of your religion.
Do you understand why a thing defined by it's effect of uniting people into a moral whole cannot avoid making normative statements?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 15, 2020 at 9:57 pm
(November 15, 2020 at 9:48 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (November 15, 2020 at 9:09 pm)Apollo Wrote: What is a revelation? It’s a claim that someone is making—Experimentation is merely refined and formal form of creating a process to ensure accuracy and replication/repetition of experiments otherwise anything can go without validity. But end goal is to make a claim—ie, come up with a theory that describes the underlying law of nature.
Revelation is a claim that a deity is making. If God appeared to you and told you there's a McDonald's on the other side of the moon, that's a revelation. Science is a method of uncovering such information on your own.
How do you know a deity is making the claim? Also, regardless of who makes the claim, it’s a claim nonetheless—ie, a claim describing certain reality.
At the end of the day it’s all about understanding and dealing with reality which allows us to survive.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 1:46 am
(November 15, 2020 at 9:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's nice, and if a god appeared to me, your god, I still wouldn't be a christian. The existence of a god is not a belief or practice that unites me into your moral whole.
Believing a particular God exists is about all I have in common with Catholics or Mormons.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 2:13 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 2:16 am by The Grand Nudger.)
No shit.....
(November 15, 2020 at 9:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: some of them believe in the same gods, even, and aren't a member of your religion.
Do you understand why no religion can avoid normative statements?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 2:27 am
No I'm still waiting for your explanation
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