(January 10, 2021 at 6:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: All the talk about impeachment and/or the 25th Amendment seems unnecessary. Here's what your 14th amendment has to say about it:

Quote:No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

It would appear from this that Trump, along with every single senator and representative who either called for or supported the riot is already out of office. There's nothing in the amendment about a vote being required to remove them (although there might be some case law and congressional procedures of which I'm unaware), just a 2/3 vote to let them back in.

Boru

That might have been referring to people before attaining office.  I'm not sure, the constitution can be tricky to interpret sometimes.

Why are the republicans backing away from this? They've spent the last 30 years screaming about how terrible and evil and horrible and wrong the government is, the democrats and everything. This is what they've asked for. This isn't a recent thing. Rush Limbaugh was talking like this back in the 80's. There was G Gordon Liddy who started spewing the same kind of crap in 1992. Fox News spouts this kind of ridiculous talk every time you turn them on. Infowars and Breitbart are nothing but this.

Trump is at fault, sure, but he's an idiotic fall guy. He's nothing more than the manifestation of every insane conspiracy theory that's been promoted by right wing propaganda. Blame Trump, but blame the lunatics that promoted the ideas that inspired him. It's a crime to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, so shouldn't it be a crime to yell "government tyranny is going to kill you" to millions of people? Are we not going to hold them accountable for the frenzied rage they've whipped up into these people?

This seriously worries me. If we don't get a handle on this kind of nonsense, we're just going to have another fascist in the White House in a few years and this time, it will be a competent fascist. Next time, when he attempts a coup, he'll be successful with it.

Well, it's illegal for starters.

(January 10, 2021 at 10:50 am)TaraJo Wrote: Why are the republicans backing away from this?  They've spent the last 30 years screaming about how terrible and evil and horrible and wrong the government is, the democrats and everything.  This is what they've asked for.  This isn't a recent thing.  Rush Limbaugh was talking like this back in the 80's.  There was G Gordon Liddy who started spewing the same kind of crap in 1992.  Fox News spouts this kind of ridiculous talk every time you turn them on.  Infowars and Breitbart are nothing but this.  

Trump is at fault, sure, but he's an idiotic fall guy.  He's nothing more than the manifestation of every insane conspiracy theory that's been promoted by right wing propaganda.  Blame Trump, but blame the lunatics that promoted the ideas that inspired him.  It's a crime to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, so shouldn't it be a crime to yell "government tyranny is going to kill you" to millions of people?  Are we not going to hold them accountable for the frenzied rage they've whipped up into these people?  

This seriously worries me.  If we don't get a handle on this kind of nonsense, we're just going to have another fascist in the White House in a few years and this time, it will be a competent fascist.  Next time, when he attempts a coup, he'll be successful with it.

The GOP since Reagan have been masters at painting the left as evil commie loving Marxist Castro lovers. 

Murdoch made a propaganda network for the GOP. Wednesday was the culmination of it. Those nuts love to claim they hate authoritarians but put one in office.

(January 10, 2021 at 11:51 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 10, 2021 at 10:50 am)TaraJo Wrote: Why are the republicans backing away from this?  They've spent the last 30 years screaming about how terrible and evil and horrible and wrong the government is, the democrats and everything.  This is what they've asked for.  This isn't a recent thing.  Rush Limbaugh was talking like this back in the 80's.  There was G Gordon Liddy who started spewing the same kind of crap in 1992.  Fox News spouts this kind of ridiculous talk every time you turn them on.  Infowars and Breitbart are nothing but this.  

Trump is at fault, sure, but he's an idiotic fall guy.  He's nothing more than the manifestation of every insane conspiracy theory that's been promoted by right wing propaganda.  Blame Trump, but blame the lunatics that promoted the ideas that inspired him.  It's a crime to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, so shouldn't it be a crime to yell "government tyranny is going to kill you" to millions of people?  Are we not going to hold them accountable for the frenzied rage they've whipped up into these people?  

This seriously worries me.  If we don't get a handle on this kind of nonsense, we're just going to have another fascist in the White House in a few years and this time, it will be a competent fascist.  Next time, when he attempts a coup, he'll be successful with it.

The GOP since Reagan have been masters at painting the left as evil commie loving Marxist Castro lovers. 

Murdoch made a propaganda network for the GOP. Wednesday was the culmination of it. Those nuts love to claim they hate authoritarians but put one in office.

We are no where near the culmination of it.  Buckle up Buttercup, shit's gonna get real ugly real quick.  January 6th was just a preview.

One talking head on CNN is calling this "a mass delusion event". Given their leader I would quite agree.

(January 10, 2021 at 11:53 am)arewethereyet Wrote: We are no where near the culmination of it.  Buckle up Buttercup, shit's gonna get real ugly real quick.  January 6th was just a preview.

There's no doubt about this.  I've been getting more concerned about the direction of politics during the last decade and I was convinced the US is on a trajectory to eventual dissolution.  Before the election, I though maybe we had another 25 years or more, but now, after the last 2 months and the insurrection, it looks like any election cycle could be the last our country ever sees.  We are dangerously close to the time of dictators.  I would say the GOP needs to purge itself of this rot and set its members straight, but it's been taken over sort of like the agents in The Matrix.  The GOP is now the party of white supremacy.  Trump was a buffoonish version of Mussolini; the next will be far more dangerous.  Unless something happens soon, I don't believe we have even ten more years left as a 50 United States.  And I have no idea what might change our current path.

This is not unprecedented.  Rome's republic failed under similar strains and circumstances.  A popular figure appears who claims he will solve all our problems and blames them on "those" people over there.  Hitler took full advantage of these same fault lines in Germany.  It sounds almost surreal to say these things but I believe they are for real.  I've watched those videos of the insurrection at the Capitol several times.  A lot of those people may go to jail, but there are millions of them!  I'm going to have to work with a lot of them and I don't know how I'm going to stand it.

(January 10, 2021 at 9:39 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 10, 2021 at 6:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: All the talk about impeachment and/or the 25th Amendment seems unnecessary. Here's what your 14th amendment has to say about it:


It would appear from this that Trump, along with every single senator and representative who either called for or supported the riot is already out of office. There's nothing in the amendment about a vote being required to remove them (although there might be some case law and congressional procedures of which I'm unaware), just a 2/3 vote to let them back in.

Boru

That might have been referring to people before attaining office.  I'm not sure, the constitution can be tricky to interpret sometimes.

It’s pretty clear that it refers to people in office.

Boru

(January 10, 2021 at 12:20 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 10, 2021 at 11:53 am)arewethereyet Wrote: We are no where near the culmination of it.  Buckle up Buttercup, shit's gonna get real ugly real quick.  January 6th was just a preview.

There's no doubt about this.  I've been getting more concerned about the direction of politics during the last decade and I was convinced the US is on a trajectory to eventual dissolution.  Before the election, I though maybe we had another 25 years or more, but now, after the last 2 months and the insurrection, it looks like any election cycle could be the last our country ever sees.  We are dangerously close to the time of dictators.  I would say the GOP needs to purge itself of this rot and set its members straight, but it's been taken over sort of like the agents in The Matrix.  The GOP is now the party of white supremacy.  Trump was a buffoonish version of Mussolini; the next will be far more dangerous.  Unless something happens soon, I don't believe we have even ten more years left as a 50 United States.  And I have no idea what might change our current path.

This is not unprecedented.  Rome's republic failed under similar strains and circumstances.  A popular figure appears who claims he will solve all our problems and blames them on "those" people over there.  Hitler took full advantage of these same fault lines in Germany.  It sounds almost surreal to say these things but I believe they are for real.  I've watched those videos of the insurrection at the Capitol several times.  A lot of those people may go to jail, but there are millions of them!  I'm going to have to work with a lot of them and I don't know how I'm going to stand it.

I don't think the country is going to dissolve that easy.  We have problems, sure, but once Rupert Murdoch and Charles Koch realize that the foaming at the mouth lunatics they've encouraged are threatening the country that made them rich, they'll suddenly have a financial interest in reigning them in.  Rule number one in modern America: if you want to get something done, get someone rich on your side.  If/when the rich people want to stop the lunatics, they'll be able to do it..... for better or worse.