(March 10, 2021 at 3:36 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 8:33 am)Brian37 Wrote: I've seen this excuse over and over since Rodney King. Not buying it. The defense lawyer will bring this up, but attacking the victim won't work in this case with that video. And yes, it was murder, full stop.

I was as outraged as anyone else when I saw the video of the knee on the neck. The other factors are very relevant though. Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD. Did that have anything at all to do with his death or was it just the knee? Did he swallow a bunch of drugs to try to hide them from the police? Floyd predicted his own death long before he went to the ground, and said putting him in the back of the police car would be enough to cause him to die. He said over and over, long before he went to the ground, that he couldn't breathe. Did Chauvin see this as the boy who cried wolf, and therefore he decided not to believe Floyd's claims about not being able to breathe when he had him on the ground? How hard was Chauvin pressing his knee onto the neck. I don't know just by watching the video? Do you know? Floyd dove out of the back of the police car once they had him in there. That could technically be called an escape attempt, couldn't it? He needed to be restrained in some way at that point, and he's a huge dude. Was he still resisting on the ground? I don't know. These things are all very relevant, and this wasn't exactly a Rodney King situation. They didn't need to beat Rodney King like that. They did it out of rage. The police officers spoke very nicely to George Floyd. I didn't hear any rage or murderous mentality. Yes, Chauvin fucked up, but is that enough to call him a murderer? I don't think there's enough there to say that, but we'll have to see what other evidence is presented at the trial.

Nope, sorry, tired of blaming the victim.

I have seen over an over, black men and women severely injured or dying, with or without weapons, on drugs or not. Sandra bland died in custody, not drunk, not high, not anything. I myself got pulled over in the early 90s after a bar closed, in the parking lot. I got the roadside test, but they didn't give me the breath test, I passed and they let me go. They didn't beat up or shoot the other white guy who tried to shove an open wine cooler into my driver side door expecting me to cover for him. That guy was arrested without harm for open container. 

I can tell you what the long term problem is though.

It is economics, lack of livable wages, economic discrimination but also facing police constantly with an armed public, no matter the zip code. 

I wouldn't have been treated like Floyd if a call came in accusing me of the same, even if I was the same size.

Quote:I was as outraged as anyone else when I saw the video of the knee on the neck.

I highly doubt that 

Quote: The other factors are very relevant though.

Nope 

Quote: Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD.

Except he didn't OD

Quote: Did that have anything at all to do with his death or was it just the knee? 

No, because he didn't OD

Quote:Did he swallow a bunch of drugs to try to hide them from the police? 

There is no evidence of that.

Quote:Floyd predicted his own death long before he went to the ground, and said putting him in the back of the police car would be enough to cause him to die.

Irrelevant 

Quote: He said over and over, long before he went to the ground, that he couldn't breathe.

Irrelevant 

Quote: Did Chauvin see this as the boy who cried wolf, 

There is no evidence of that and plenty he was just a dick who liked throwing his weight around 

Quote:and therefore he decided not to believe Floyd's claims about not being able to breathe when he had him on the ground? 

Or he was just a dick who liked throwing his weight around as the video highly suggests 

Quote:How hard was Chauvin pressing his knee onto the neck? 

Hard enough to kill him 

Quote:I don't know just by watching the video? 

Doesn't take much of a guess 

Quote:Do you know? Floyd dove out of the back of the police car once they had him in there. 

Irrelevant 

Quote:That could technically be called an escape attempt, couldn't it? 

Nope and the knee was not justified 

Quote:He needed to be restrained in some way at that point, and he's a huge dude. 

If a group of cops can't restrain one man they suck at their job 

Quote:Was he still resisting on the ground? 

No evidence of this 

Quote:I don't know.

Leading question won't help you 

Quote: These things are all very relevant,

No most of this is totally irrelevant 

Quote: and this wasn't exactly a Rodney King situation. They didn't need to beat Rodney King like that. They did it out of rage. The police officers spoke very nicely to George Floyd. 

Your definition of nice is skewed 

Quote:I didn't hear any rage or murderous mentality.

You don't seem to hear a lot of things 
 

Quote:Yes, Chauvin fucked up, but is that enough to call him a murderer? I don't think there's enough there to say that, but we'll have to see what other evidence is presented at the trial.

No, he did not just "fuck up" and whether he's convicted or not he's a murderer plain and simple .

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(March 10, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 3:36 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I was as outraged as anyone else when I saw the video of the knee on the neck. The other factors are very relevant though. Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD. Did that have anything at all to do with his death or was it just the knee? Did he swallow a bunch of drugs to try to hide them from the police? Floyd predicted his own death long before he went to the ground, and said putting him in the back of the police car would be enough to cause him to die. He said over and over, long before he went to the ground, that he couldn't breathe. Did Chauvin see this as the boy who cried wolf, and therefore he decided not to believe Floyd's claims about not being able to breathe when he had him on the ground? How hard was Chauvin pressing his knee onto the neck. I don't know just by watching the video? Do you know? Floyd dove out of the back of the police car once they had him in there. That could technically be called an escape attempt, couldn't it? He needed to be restrained in some way at that point, and he's a huge dude. Was he still resisting on the ground? I don't know. These things are all very relevant, and this wasn't exactly a Rodney King situation. They didn't need to beat Rodney King like that. They did it out of rage. The police officers spoke very nicely to George Floyd. I didn't hear any rage or murderous mentality. Yes, Chauvin fucked up, but is that enough to call him a murderer? I don't think there's enough there to say that, but we'll have to see what other evidence is presented at the trial.

Nope, sorry, tired of blaming the victim.

I have seen over an over, black men and women severely injured or dying, with or without weapons, on drugs or not. Sandra bland died in custody, not drunk, not high, not anything. I myself got pulled over in the early 90s after a bar closed, in the parking lot. I got the roadside test, but they didn't give me the breath test, I passed and they let me go. They didn't beat up or shoot the other white guy who tried to shove an open wine cooler into my driver side door expecting me to cover for him. That guy was arrested without harm for open container. 

I can tell you what the long term problem is though.

It is economics, lack of livable wages, economic discrimination but also facing police constantly with an armed public, no matter the zip code. 

I wouldn't have been treated like Floyd if a call came in accusing me of the same, even if I was the same size.

Apologists will always do this

(March 10, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 3:36 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I was as outraged as anyone else when I saw the video of the knee on the neck. The other factors are very relevant though. Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD. Did that have anything at all to do with his death or was it just the knee? Did he swallow a bunch of drugs to try to hide them from the police? Floyd predicted his own death long before he went to the ground, and said putting him in the back of the police car would be enough to cause him to die. He said over and over, long before he went to the ground, that he couldn't breathe. Did Chauvin see this as the boy who cried wolf, and therefore he decided not to believe Floyd's claims about not being able to breathe when he had him on the ground? How hard was Chauvin pressing his knee onto the neck. I don't know just by watching the video? Do you know? Floyd dove out of the back of the police car once they had him in there. That could technically be called an escape attempt, couldn't it? He needed to be restrained in some way at that point, and he's a huge dude. Was he still resisting on the ground? I don't know. These things are all very relevant, and this wasn't exactly a Rodney King situation. They didn't need to beat Rodney King like that. They did it out of rage. The police officers spoke very nicely to George Floyd. I didn't hear any rage or murderous mentality. Yes, Chauvin fucked up, but is that enough to call him a murderer? I don't think there's enough there to say that, but we'll have to see what other evidence is presented at the trial.

Nope, sorry, tired of blaming the victim.

I have seen over an over, black men and women severely injured or dying, with or without weapons, on drugs or not. Sandra bland died in custody, not drunk, not high, not anything. I myself got pulled over in the early 90s after a bar closed, in the parking lot. I got the roadside test, but they didn't give me the breath test, I passed and they let me go. They didn't beat up or shoot the other white guy who tried to shove an open wine cooler into my driver side door expecting me to cover for him. That guy was arrested without harm for open container. 

I can tell you what the long term problem is though.

It is economics, lack of livable wages, economic discrimination but also facing police constantly with an armed public, no matter the zip code. 

I wouldn't have been treated like Floyd if a call came in accusing me of the same, even if I was the same size.

Sandra Bland killed herself. I don't know if she wanted to become a martyr or what, but she killed herself.

Quote:Sandra Bland killed herself. I don't know if she wanted to become a martyr or what, but she killed herself.

The Prison didn't follow proper policy. They killed her as sure as if the noose around her neck.

A martyr to what....this just seems too good not to ask.

(March 10, 2021 at 4:33 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

Quote:Sandra Bland killed herself. I don't know if she wanted to become a martyr or what, but she killed herself.

The Prison didn't follow proper policy. They killed her as sure as if the noose around her neck.

She wanted to die. She died. Brian needs to start posting some examples to support his case that are not the worst possible examples. It's always Sandra Bland and Dylan Roof with Brian. Dylan Roof got a cheeseburger because he was in a confessing/co-operating mood and acting like a gentleman. The police would have been idiots not to buy him Burger King in that scenario. Most criminals that get picked up are not ready to confess and co-operate, therefore they don't get the cheeseburger. Pretty simple stuff there.

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(March 10, 2021 at 4:35 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A martyr to what....this just seems too good not to ask.

A martyr for he BLM movement to rally behind, which is exactly what she became.

Quote:She wanted to die. She died. Brian needs to start posting some examples to support his case that are not the worst possible examples. It's always Sandra Bland and Dylan Roof with Brian. Dylan Roof got a cheeseburger because he was in a confessing/co-operating mood and acting like a gentleman. The police would have been idiots not to buy him Burger King in that scenario. Most criminals that get picked up are not ready to confess and co-operate, therefore they don't get the cheeseburger. Pretty simple stuff there.

Her motives are irrelevant her death was caused by negligence and the rest of this bullshit.

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Quote:A martyr for he BLM movement to rally behind, which is exactly what she became.

More bullshit

(March 10, 2021 at 4:41 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: A martyr for he BLM movement to rally behind, which is exactly what she became.

A bold theory.  Have you considered it alongside any of the publicly available references for the events?

Footage of the arrest, for example?  The results of the investigation into the officer and dept and jail, as another?  I ask because it's not just that there's no conceivable way to put lipstick on this pig, but that the pig itself seems like the kind of event that might cause a person to contemplate suicide.....and...if a person was contemplating suicide, it sounds like that was the jail to do it in.  

Justice failed sandra bland at literally every point in it's interaction with her.  Perhaps that's why her story is so impactful?

That's why it hits me, anyway. I'm not a generally melancholy or cynical person, but it would challenge my nature to find myself in her situation, despair...rather than matrydom....seems a more credible hypothesis - to me.

(March 10, 2021 at 4:13 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nope, sorry, tired of blaming the victim.

I have seen over an over, black men and women severely injured or dying, with or without weapons, on drugs or not. Sandra bland died in custody, not drunk, not high, not anything. I myself got pulled over in the early 90s after a bar closed, in the parking lot. I got the roadside test, but they didn't give me the breath test, I passed and they let me go. They didn't beat up or shoot the other white guy who tried to shove an open wine cooler into my driver side door expecting me to cover for him. That guy was arrested without harm for open container. 

I can tell you what the long term problem is though.

It is economics, lack of livable wages, economic discrimination but also facing police constantly with an armed public, no matter the zip code. 

I wouldn't have been treated like Floyd if a call came in accusing me of the same, even if I was the same size.

Sandra Bland killed herself. I don't know if she wanted to become a martyr or what, but she killed herself.

Gee, someone who went their entire life trying to do the right thing, and did, suddenly made a minor mistake and was worried about image? 

Should it matter that Whitney Houston died an addict, who never had a DUI ? Bland didn't even die from what Whitney did, but still died.

Yeah, it's all speculation and perhaps I should not have mentioned that idea because I don't know why she did it. I support the right to die though. We weren't given a choice to enter the world, so we shouldn't be forced to stay in it if we choose not to.