I think anyone sane, when they saw Chauvin's veins popping out on his forehead, and his darting eyes, it was obvious he did not espect this result.

I hadn't seen the video of Floyd resisting being put in the squad car before the closing statements. I don't think it's enough to acquit, but it changes things.

Nevermind.  

(April 21, 2021 at 3:03 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I hadn't seen the video of Floyd resisting being put in the squad car before the closing statements.  I don't think it's enough to acquit, but it changes things.

No, it doesn’t, because his death did not occur while he was resisting arrest.

Boru

(April 21, 2021 at 2:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 21, 2021 at 2:34 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Hmmm, if committing third degree felony also qualifies one to be convicted for second degree felony, what is the point of having both?   Why not just add the penalties together and lump it into a single criminal offense?

Because they are two separate crimes, and the degree of the initial felony is immaterial.  

Boru

Yes in general, but I think in Chavin’s case it is not two separate crimes    He is guilty of second degree murder for exactly the the same offense because he is also guilty third degree murder for that offense.   Why not just make the third degree murder carrying the penalty of 2nd and 3rd degree murders put together?

(April 21, 2021 at 3:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 21, 2021 at 3:03 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I hadn't seen the video of Floyd resisting being put in the squad car before the closing statements.  I don't think it's enough to acquit, but it changes things.

No, it doesn’t, because his death did not occur while he was resisting arrest.

Boru

What happened in the minutes before Chauvin applied lethal force does change one's understanding of the events of that day. But your politically correct smear is noted. Now fuck off.

(April 21, 2021 at 3:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 21, 2021 at 3:03 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I hadn't seen the video of Floyd resisting being put in the squad car before the closing statements.  I don't think it's enough to acquit, but it changes things.

No, it doesn’t, because his death did not occur while he was resisting arrest.

Boru

And, in fact, said death occurred while he was in a restrained position, from which he was physically unable to resist arrest. And for the last 3 minutes and 50 seconds, he was physically unable to do much of anything. Except maybe autonomic functions, and even those probably stopped at some point before Chauvin let go. In fact, Chauvin was told outright by several witnesses that Floyd isn’t even resisting arrest anymore, and, during the last few minutes, was probably dead, and Chauvin just shrugged it all off.

There may have been a point where it could have been justifiable (then again, maybe there wasn’t) but once it became clear that Floyd not only wasn’t even resisting arrest (and, indeed, was handcuffed and any resistance would have been useless), but was in physical danger and that the cops were going to keep doing it regardless, they have completely divested themselves of any defensibility.

I’m reminded of White Bear, the Black Mirror episode (note: if you have Netflix and haven’t watched the show, do it NOW, it’s fucking great). The big twist of this episode is that the woman we’ve been following in this zombie apocalypse scenario was actually not only a murderer, but basically the modern equivalent of Myra Hindley. A woman who gleefully took part in the torture murder of a young girl and whose punishment was to take part of this daily ritual of waking up with no memories in what looks like a zombie apocalypse, being led to a theater where her true identity and horrific past crimes are revealed, and publicly shamed by the participants in this “justice park” scenario, and then getting her memories of the previous day wiped, lather, rinse, repeat. At first it seems like fitting karma, but once she’s away from the crowds, at the mercy of the staff of the White Bear Justice Park, she pleads for them to kill her. And then, the man says something that makes me lose any sympathy for them: “that’s what you always say.” He then proceeds to wipe her memories, which, if her screaming is any indication, is extremely painful. And this happens EVERY DAY. At least the little girl she helped torture and kill only had to deal with a few days of Hell!

I can plainly recognise excessive punishment when it’s a fictional equivalent to Myra Hindley. Do you think it’d be that hard to see when it was a real guy whose crimes, (as far as they knew, at least, since it doesn’t seem like they were aware of Floyd’s previous record at the time), were passing off a counterfeit $20 bill, resisting arrest, and maybe swallowing a supply of drugs?

(April 21, 2021 at 4:06 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(April 21, 2021 at 3:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: No, it doesn’t, because his death did not occur while he was resisting arrest.

Boru

What happened in the minutes before Chauvin applied lethal force does change one's understanding of the events of that day.  But your politically correct smear is noted.  Now fuck off.

Are you having a bad day?

Boru

(April 21, 2021 at 4:06 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(April 21, 2021 at 3:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: No, it doesn’t, because his death did not occur while he was resisting arrest.

Boru

What happened in the minutes before Chauvin applied lethal force does change one's understanding of the events of that day. But your politically correct smear is noted. Now fuck off.

And, once again, that still means they used excessive force in trying to make him compliant. Like keeping his knee to his neck long after it became clear that he wasn’t going to resist arrest. Or even survive to see noon.

(March 9, 2021 at 6:14 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Do you think the defendant will get a fair trial?

If so would you accept a guilty or not guilty verdict as just?

This one is conflicting for me. Do I think the process of the trail was fair? Yes. He deserved that guilty. But he would’ve have gotten a guilty either way. There was absolutely no choice but to give him a guilty. Luckily, he was guilty. But...still makes me uneasy.