Oscar Wilde was reputed to have enjoyed sex with his wife, despite his fondness for men.

I wonder how that ties into the anti-homosexual agenda....

Simple - obviously it's a lifestyle choice.
[/bigotry]

Quote:The species survives because homosexuality is unsuccessful. The species takes the hit of the negative pull.

No it survives because the other 80-90% is straight and reproducing. Did you know that even if only 50% of our species was reproducing, we'd still have a problem with our population? Some how I don't think a good few homosexuals is going to do anything.

Quote:Morality is important. Without it we could go murder, rape and pillage without worrying about it. But we do worry about it > ethics are important to us.

But there is nothing wrong/immoral about homosexuality. We've had homosexuality for millions of years, no negative side effects! Why? It's because it's perfectly natural.
If you think it's immoral because they're not reproducing then I must be immoral. Because I have perfectly healthy genes and yet I won't be passing them on. I don't want kids. I have sex for fun and never with the intention to reproduce.

Quote:I'm not saying that they do... they are.

If there is anyone who should be attacked, it's people who are against homosexuality. Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, ect ect had no problems with homosexuality. It was very much accepted as normal. It was only till stupid intolerant Christians came into the world that they became hated.

Arguing from biology to morality in an absolute manner is pointless. There are no evil squirrels (despite my constant cries to the contrary) and there are no good rattlesnakes (i think this one is solid). Can we say something about how we came about this sort of concept, what use it would have and why we would see fit to pass it along? Sure. Does that make it objective, absolute, no. Why any believer would even stray down this road is beyond me. If biology serves as a guiding line for morality than what need for a transcendent lawgiver? None at all, even in a godless universe morality would be possible through biology (which is amusingly exactly what you hear from atheists on this subject day in and day out.

The disconnect here is that you're looking at "nature" the same way you approach "god", when this is the last thing you should be doing. Nature is not a god, it doesn't make lists of rules or even absolute statements of right and wrong. Taken as a whole even the easily waved away ones like causing death or harm to another person or being melt away. Without death life does not function. The kind of morality you're talking about exists in the landscape of the human mind, not the savannah.

Honestly what you're doing here is exactly what you chide others for. You want to believe that the natural world somehow collaborates the biblical narrative, this is just another one of those places that it clearly does not. You have no reason to believe this other than "the bible says so". It is what it is. Besides, since when did god need excuses from you or anyone else? Does he get his street cred from the lions and the buffalo? I think not. Might makes right. That's the biblical position. Why you feel the need to elaborate upon this is lost on yours truly.

(You, I , and every other swinging richard in the 1st world know far too much about our environment to swallow this sort of shit hook, line, and sinker. You've had to source or manufacture what appear to be a very elaborate set of justifications to make your religion seem less absurd even to yourself. This is why you claim "reason" when you have none. "Evidence", when you have none. You know that you need these things, and in their absence any explanation seems to do.)

(October 9, 2011 at 5:58 am)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:The species survives because homosexuality is unsuccessful. The species takes the hit of the negative pull.

No it survives because the other 80-90% is straight and reproducing. Did you know that even if only 50% of our species was reproducing, we'd still have a problem with our population? Some how I don't think a good few homosexuals is going to do anything.

Quote:Morality is important. Without it we could go murder, rape and pillage without worrying about it. But we do worry about it > ethics are important to us.

But there is nothing wrong/immoral about homosexuality. We've had homosexuality for millions of years, no negative side effects! Why? It's because it's perfectly natural.
If you think it's immoral because they're not reproducing then I must be immoral. Because I have perfectly healthy genes and yet I won't be passing them on. I don't want kids. I have sex for fun and never with the intention to reproduce.

Quote:I'm not saying that they do... they are.

If there is anyone who should be attacked, it's people who are against homosexuality. Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, ect ect had no problems with homosexuality. It was very much accepted as normal. It was only till stupid intolerant Christians came into the world that they became hated.

"It was only till stupid intolerant Christians came into the world that they became hated."

Disagree.......Christians are instructed in the Bible to hate the sin and not the sinner. Homosexuality is a sin just like fornication, child molestation, murder, lying, etc. God is the one who will judge all of our unrepented sins. Jesus showed compassion for all sinners. His instruction to them was go and sin no more. To sin or not to sin, that is the question. We are sinners by nature. Only God can give us the ability to overcome our carnal natures and resist the sins that so easily beset us all. Christians are not perfect people like some of them would like everyone else to believe. Self righteousness is one of the greatest sins of all. Homosexuals like everyone else can be saved. Simply repent, and do not yield to the forbidden act any more. Some sins are very difficult to over come, and homosexuality is on the top of that list. Seductive unclean spirits have to leave the body of a repentant soul. God can heal anyone of any seduction if they are willing to put their trust in him.

(November 8, 2011 at 2:17 am)justthetruth Wrote: "It was only till stupid intolerant Christians came into the world that they became hated."

Disagree.......Christians are instructed in the Bible to hate the sin and not the sinner. Homosexuality is a sin just like fornication, child molestation, murder, lying, etc. God is the one who will judge all of our unrepented sins. Jesus showed compassion for all sinners. His instruction to them was go and sin no more. To sin or not to sin, that is the question. We are sinners by nature. Only God can give us the ability to overcome our carnal natures and resist the sins that so easily beset us all. Christians are not perfect people like some of them would like everyone else to believe. Self righteousness is one of the greatest sins of all. Homosexuals like everyone else can be saved. Simply repent, and do not yield to the forbidden act any more. Some sins are very difficult to over come, and homosexuality is on the top of that list. Seductive unclean spirits have to leave the body of a repentant soul. God can heal anyone of any seduction if they are willing to put their trust in him.

Are all species capable of sin, then? Or just the 1,500 species that have homosexual sex?

I think I am going to start my own religion wherein it's a sin to be a bigoted, ignorant, repugnant shithead. I'll call it Anti-Christianity.

If you deny that homosexuality isn't a choice, but rather part of one's biological make-up, then you deny clear scientific fact.

Someone already posted this, but you should watch it, although I'm sure your brain is glued shut with the snot of jebus, and you won't accept it. Regardless, I am making an effort to help you understand reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI1_jzPEc...re=related

Furthermore, can you prove the existence of "Seductive unclean spirits"? My brother is gay. He is also a Christian. He just recently came out to his very fundy family, and they said they'd known he was gay since he was a child. He's waited so long to come out because of fear of condemnation from his family, and suffered severely because of personal guilt for just being who he is. He confided in me that he does love his Christ, and he has given his heart to god, but is still attracted to men and can't help it. What would you say to him? He needs to pray harder? He's not a true christian?

Who do you presume yourself to be?

I presume you to be an ignorant, closed minded, bigot... but I don't condemn you, nor assert that you deserve condemnation. I have morals, as well as rationale.

Sorry Alei but christians are past masters of ignoring any scientific evidence or studies that disagree with their stupid book.

So anything we will present will just be dismissed out of hand, regardless of how much evidence we produce.

(October 8, 2011 at 11:33 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Oscar Wilde was reputed to have enjoyed sex with his wife, despite his fondness for men.

I wonder how that ties into the anti-homosexual agenda....

A lot of humans are bisexual to some degree or another. I suspect few humans are exclusively heterosexual or homosexual in their orientation.

* Justtristo is a strange case, he is exclusively heterosexual. However a low sex drive, so sometimes he is asexual.

Jesus encountered unclean spirits throughout his ministry. Can these same spirits inhabit the bodies of animals. Yes they can. The pigs that Jesus allowed them to enter following their explusion from the posessed man the Lord encountered, ran off a hill and drowned themselves. Maybe the pigs were just happy being stright.

[straightjacket]I found a fairy last night, and she made sweet love to me, it was a man fairy and I liked it, NO, it was demons, I must lie to others and to myself to be what others want me to be, gahhh, its a fairyyyyyy[/straightjacket]

Sorry, your point is?