I was born in one of the largest muslim country
But since i'm attending Christian school, i spend my childhood as a Christian

As a kid, of course i'll believe pretty much anything other people said.
My parents are budhist, and i'm fortunate enough that my family doesn't think that religion is important
They always taught me that "The most important thing is, being a Good person, not a religious person"

Until, one day. When i'm at the church, the priest talking about how the nonbeliever will all go to hell.
The question that first pop in my head was "How about my parents? They never hurt anybody, why does they have to go to hell?"
"Sure, they didn't worship Jesus, but that doesn't mean that they are bad"
The priest made it pretty clear that "Jesus is the only way"
Other ways? Straight to hell!

That time, the priest himself already planted the seed of my doubt
But that didn't made me an atheist yet.
I'm still a Christian, just not very devouted one.
Hated going to church, rather playing video games.
But still believe that God exist.

I was never really able fit in with other "Christian"
They always asked me to join them in their "Community Group"
Which i'll admit, it was actually fun, except reading the bible part
And when the leader said that "your spirit is not growing" (Whatever that means)
I decided to leave the group for good (I was there for the girls anyway)

One day. I stumbled across a book
"Beyond Belief - AL De Silva"
Actually, I read that book just because i'm bored, but i kept on reading
Till the part where the book explained the inconsistencies of the bible
How they cherry picked the bible verse and simply ignore the rest
And that time, i just thought, "Well, this is a really good point"
After that, i'm doing my homework

I've done a lot of reading
After reading "A brief history of Time - Stephen Hawking"
My mind was blown away over the fact about how vast our universe are.
How they are keep expanding, how the scientist "found" other planets
Our universe is amazing... Such being as "Almighty God" has no place here.
I suppose God didn't have anything better to do beside asking money on earth
Punishing boys for beating his meat on earth.
And of course, provide 72 (Why 72?) hot angels to his subjects (This one from quran)

Why i didn't believe the concept of God?
For me, God (Yahweh / Allah) is no more real than Zeus or Osiris.
Just an imaginary figure to explain something people don't understand.
"God did it" is definitely not a satisfying answer

And no, i didn't hate God.
I admire God as much as i admire Odin & Thor.
I like Jesus as much as i like Santa Claus (It's holiday, ja?)
If there's any movies about them, i'll watch them, because it entertains me
I became an atheist is not out of hate. But out of curiousity.
And i found my answer that way.

(June 2, 2021 at 3:36 am)freakygin Wrote: I was born in one of the largest muslim country
But since i'm attending Christian school, i spend my childhood as a Christian

As a kid, of course i'll believe pretty much anything other people said.
My parents are budhist, and i'm fortunate enough that my family doesn't think that religion is important
They always taught me that "The most important thing is, being a Good person, not a religious person"

Until, one day. When i'm at the church, the priest talking about how the nonbeliever will all go to hell.
The question that first pop in my head was "How about my parents? They never hurt anybody, why does they have to go to hell?"
"Sure, they didn't worship Jesus, but that doesn't mean that they are bad"
The priest made it pretty clear that "Jesus is the only way"
Other ways? Straight to hell!

That time, the priest himself already planted the seed of my doubt
But that didn't made me an atheist yet.
I'm still a Christian, just not very devouted one.
Hated going to church, rather playing video games.
But still believe that God exist.

I was never really able fit in with other "Christian"
They always asked me to join them in their "Community Group"
Which i'll admit, it was actually fun, except reading the bible part
And when the leader said that "your spirit is not growing" (Whatever that means)
I decided to leave the group for good (I was there for the girls anyway)

One day. I stumbled across a book
"Beyond Belief - AL De Silva"
Actually, I read that book just because i'm bored, but i kept on reading
Till the part where the book explained the inconsistencies of the bible
How they cherry picked the bible verse and simply ignore the rest
And that time, i just thought, "Well, this is a really good point"
After that, i'm doing my homework

I've done a lot of reading
After reading "A brief history of Time - Stephen Hawking"
My mind was blown away over the fact about how vast our universe are.
How they are keep expanding, how the scientist "found" other planets
Our universe is amazing... Such being as "Almighty God" has no place here.
I suppose God didn't have anything better to do beside asking money on earth
Punishing boys for beating his meat on earth.
And of course, provide 72 (Why 72?) hot angels to his subjects (This one from quran)

Why i didn't believe the concept of God?
For me, God (Yahweh / Allah) is no more real than Zeus or Osiris.
Just an imaginary figure to explain something people don't understand.
"God did it" is definitely not a satisfying answer

And no, i didn't hate God.
I admire God as much as i admire Odin & Thor.
I like Jesus as much as i like Santa Claus (It's holiday, ja?)
If there's any movies about them, i'll watch them, because it entertains me
I became an atheist is not out of hate. But out of curiousity.
And i found my answer that way.

Good evening Gin,

Thank you so much for sharing that with us I really appreciate that! If I may ask you a question. What country did you or do you live in (please only answer if you are comfortable with it)? Were you going to a Christian school while leaving in a Muslim country? If so, how did that make you feel? Were you criticized or bullied for it? Do you still talk with your parents? If so do they know now that you are atheist and how is your relationship with them? Thanks again for your time Gin!

Q: What country did you or do you live in (please only answer if you are comfortable with it)?
A: "Clue : All you need is just type 'Largest muslim country' on google"

Q: Were you going to a Christian school while leaving in a Muslim country?
A: "Nah, still here..."

Q: Were you criticized or bullied for it?
A: "For being an atheist? Nah, i kept hiding my true nature.
It's easier to blend in here. The risk is real.
This one time, there's a Cristian mom went to jail for 18 months, simply because she asked her neighbor "Why the mosque speaker's louder than usual?"
She's been charged guilty for blasphemy."

Q: Do you still talk with your parents?
A: "Sure do. My father passed away last year because of Covid. My mom still kicking"

Q: If so do they know now that you are atheist and how is your relationship with them?
A: "They do, they're fine with it. Actually they didn't care about it. And I respect them more"

(June 2, 2021 at 3:31 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: No, nobody can take the entire Bible literally, it is not meant to be taken completely literally.

How do you know?

Which parts are to be taken literally, the ones that reenforce your views?

(June 2, 2021 at 4:57 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(June 2, 2021 at 3:31 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: No, nobody can take the entire Bible literally, it is not meant to be taken completely literally.

How do you know?

Because Jesus is not a door lol.

If you ask me how I know that then stick a fork in me I'm done lol.

Is there a more appropriate thread to converse on such a topic?

---

(June 2, 2021 at 5:14 am)no one Wrote: Which parts are to be taken literally, the ones that reenforce your views?

That is a whole topic within itself that may be more appropriate on another thread.

(June 2, 2021 at 5:48 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: That is a whole topic within itself that may be more appropriate on another thread.

I'm guilty of bringing that up, at the risk of derailing the thread. 

My original point was that many of the atheists here reject the Bible because they think Christians have to believe in talking snakes, etc. They are very much unaware of how hermeneutics work. As Terry Eagleton says, they "buy their atheism on the cheap," by describing a simplified caricature of Christianity, and pretending that's all there is. It's frustrating because it's ignorant.

But I'll drop it now. No more responses on that topic from me.

(June 2, 2021 at 6:05 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(June 2, 2021 at 5:48 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: That is a whole topic within itself that may be more appropriate on another thread.

I'm guilty of bringing that up, at the risk of derailing the thread. 

My original point was that many of the atheists here reject the Bible because they think Christians have to believe in talking snakes, etc. They are very much unaware of how hermeneutics work. As Terry Eagleton says, they "buy their atheism on the cheap," by describing a simplified caricature of Christianity, and pretending that's all there is. It's frustrating because it's ignorant.

But I'll drop it now. No more responses on that topic from me.

Of course Christians don't have to believe in talking snakes, but a lot of them do. Even the ones who don't believe things just as fantastical - the Flood, feeding the multitudes, walking on water, healing touch, and so on. Christianity could not survive without a firm belief in miracles, which is why there will always be a subset of Christians who spend a great deal of time and energy trying to come up with mechanisms for these things.

Boru

(June 2, 2021 at 6:05 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(June 2, 2021 at 5:48 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: That is a whole topic within itself that may be more appropriate on another thread.

I'm guilty of bringing that up, at the risk of derailing the thread. 

My original point was that many of the atheists here reject the Bible because they think Christians have to believe in talking snakes, etc. They are very much unaware of how hermeneutics work. As Terry Eagleton says, they "buy their atheism on the cheap," by describing a simplified caricature of Christianity, and pretending that's all there is. It's frustrating because it's ignorant.

But I'll drop it now. No more responses on that topic from me.

Yes, yes, hermeneutics, exegesis, Textual criticism, Systematic Theology. I have read it all and studied it all. I went to seminary and have a degree in Christian ministry as well am currently working on my bachelors, minor in Religious Studies, blah blah blah so on and so forth. The more I study and surround myself with all of this knowledge of Christianity and religion and with like-minded individuals I find myself drifting farther away from all those big scary theological words and ideas. As Christians, we tend to get so caught up in these things and they become folly and a stumbling block unto us and others. I feel like we tend to miss the most basic understanding of what Jesus taught. 

As for Atheist, I have pretty much given up on debating and arguing over doctrine with them. I now more so want to understand the individual and why they believe sorry not believe the way they do. I am done trying to convince atheists as to why I believe what I believe. Sure I will tell them if they ask and of course, I will be ridiculed and called names and nothing I say will ever convince them, and I'm ok with that. They have made up their mind and I have made up mine, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy their company and talk with them. 

Sorry, this is what I did not want to happen in this thread lol. I can go on and on, but again none of what I say will matter to most people. That is why instead of talking about myself and what I believe I want to truly understand others and what they believe or don't believe and why. Maybe I will start another thread on this topic and we can speak more of it there. Thanks for the post and sorry for going off OP.

(June 2, 2021 at 6:37 am)johndoe122931 Wrote: As Christians, we tend to get so caught up in these things and they become folly and a stumbling block unto us and others. 

I've met two serious Christians who were born here in Hiroshima. Both were doctors, devoted completely to charity. And entirely uninterested in theology!

So I suspect you're on the right track.