Why do you not believe in the concept of a God?

[brewer]

That is a whole topic within itself that may be more appropriate on another thread.

I'm guilty of bringing that up, at the risk of derailing the thread. 

My original point was that many of the atheists here reject the Bible because they think Christians have to believe in talking snakes, etc. They are very much unaware of how hermeneutics work. As Terry Eagleton says, they "buy their atheism on the cheap," by describing a simplified caricature of Christianity, and pretending that's all there is. It's frustrating because it's ignorant.

But I'll drop it now. No more responses on that topic from me.

Why do you deny that there are many christians that do take a large portion of the bible literally? You can find them by simply turning on the TV, radio or searching the internet.

Talk about willful ignorance.

[The Grand Nudger]

If we're being asked whether we believe in the concept of god, described as a bunch of stories we aren't meant to take literally, aren't we being asked whether we believe in metaphors, similes, parables.......?

Sure. I think that creative storytelling exists, and that people find all sorts of utility in it when they set out to describe the human condition. That is how we ended up with gods, after all.

[Abaddon_ire]

Johndoe

You said you are IFB.

I would ask you then to explain why you hate Zeus, if you would be so kind.

Good morning Abaddon,

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the appropriate thread to answer such a question.

Although I would love to hear why you do not believe in the concept of a God. If you would be so kind as to share your story it would be greatly appreciated!

There is not problem with a concept of a god, since concepts of gods are real things. That is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact that concepts of gods exist. There are thousands of concepts of gods, all of them real concepts. That does not mean that any of such concepts describe any actual entity, does it? Quetzalcoatl exists as a concept of a god from south america. Sculptures of that conceptual god exist. Does that mean it is a real god? Do you believe in it?

[brewer]

Good morning Abaddon,

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the appropriate thread to answer such a question.

Although I would love to hear why you do not believe in the concept of a God. If you would be so kind as to share your story it would be greatly appreciated!

There is not problem with a concept of a god, since concepts of gods are real things. That is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact that concepts of gods exist. There are thousands of concepts of gods, all of them real concepts. That does not mean that any of such concepts describe any actual entity, does it? Quetzalcoatl exists as a concept of a god from south america. Sculptures of that conceptual god exist. Does that mean it is a real god? Do you believe in it?

Kind of depends on how you define real and exists. Superman is a concept, if Superman existed in reality (vs fantasy) he would be a god.

[Abaddon_ire]

Why isn't it an appropriate question?

Abaddon is merely trying to demonstrate why your logic is bad. What you are doing is selection bias. There are a myriad of god claims you rightfully reject. Try thinking about why you reject Zeus and not the one you believe to be true. 

Abaddon is merely saying you reject Zeus for the same reason Abaddon rejects the one you believe in. The only difference between a theist and an atheist is that we reject one more god claim than you do.

Indeed. I did not expect explanation would be required, but it appears john needs it.

OK, johndoe, Do you agree that Zeus exists as a concept, yes or no?

Do you believe in Zeus as a real god, yes or no?

Do you hate Zeus or are you indifferent to him? Which is it?

[johndoe122931]

Good morning Abaddon,

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the appropriate thread to answer such a question.

Although I would love to hear why you do not believe in the concept of a God. If you would be so kind as to share your story it would be greatly appreciated!

There is not problem with a concept of a god, since concepts of gods are real things. That is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact that concepts of gods exist. There are thousands of concepts of gods, all of them real concepts. That does not mean that any of such concepts describe any actual entity, does it? Quetzalcoatl exists as a concept of a god from south america. Sculptures of that conceptual god exist. Does that mean it is a real god? Do you believe in it?

All hope abandon, ye who enter here! lol.
Well, I guess I need to revise my question yet again! Thanks for the post Abaddon I absolutely love how you tore apart the structure of my question and I'm being very serious I love this kind of stuff! Thank you!

---

Why isn't it an appropriate question?

Abaddon is merely trying to demonstrate why your logic is bad. What you are doing is selection bias. There are a myriad of god claims you rightfully reject. Try thinking about why you reject Zeus and not the one you believe to be true. 

Abaddon is merely saying you reject Zeus for the same reason Abaddon rejects the one you believe in. The only difference between a theist and an atheist is that we reject one more god claim than you do.

Indeed. I did not expect explanation would be required, but it appears john needs it.

OK, johndoe, Do you agree that Zeus exists as a concept, yes or no?

Do you believe in Zeus as a real god, yes or no?

Do you hate Zeus or are you indifferent to him? Which is it?

No explanation was needed. Brian37 took the liberty to interject on your behalf. I fully understood what you meant.

Since it seems this thread has gone off the rails I suppose I can answer your questions rather quickly. I will number them so as to help you follow along.

1) Do you agree that Zeus exists as a concept, yes or no? YES
2) Do you believe in Zeus as a real god, yes or no? YES
3) Do you hate Zeus or are you indifferent to him? Which is it? Yes, I hate Zeus

I hope this answers your questions. Thank you for your post!

[Gwaithmir]

I grew up in a Catholic household. My religious indoctrination began even before I was old enough to attend school. I can still recall how my mother taught me to say simple prayers and that the world was created by God from nothing. I was skeptical of this outrageous claim, even at the tender age of four or five years.

I attended three Catholic schools during my youth. Each class featured about 40 minutes of daily prayers and anywhere from an hour to three hours of religious instruction and study. Students were literally smothered in a miasma of religion. Walls were festooned with religious imagery and there were statues of Jesus, Mary and the saints everywhere. Only the restrooms were free of this nonsense. Every book, regardless of subject, contained religious imagery. I can still recall how most of the geography books I had to study featured articles on churches, missions and famous saints in each country around the world. History books concentrated more on the history of the Church than that of the world.

Fear was an essential element of my indoctrination. Nuns were especially fond of scaring their students with tales of the horrors of Hell. These stories were frequently supplemented by horrific images of Hell, guaranteed to traumatize young minds. Physical abuse was also an acceptable teaching tool. Slow learners were apt to have their hair pulled and their faces slapped, not to mention being struck with rulers and oaken rods. My 8th grade nun's favorite method of abuse, which she carried out with great frequency and relish, was to seize a boy by the cheeks or hair and repeatedly bash his head against a wall. This happened at a time in which a public school teacher would have gone to jail for similar behavior.

This abuse extended into my home life as well. My father was a Bible-thumping Lutheran who firmly believed in the biblical adage that “...by the blueness of their wounds shall they be cleansed.” He would frequently beat my younger brother and I for petty offenses, real or imagined, with sticks or a belt. He began using the strap on me when I was only four or five years old. While I showed a grudging respect for him during his life, I did not shed so much as a single tear for him at his funeral.

The first serious cracks in my faith occurred when I had to study the Bible. Even the bowdlerized Catholic version I had to read revealed a God who was anything but loving and benevolent, but rather an insecure, malevolent, egotistical tyrant. The Book of Job, in particular, turned my stomach.

My senior religion classes included learning proofs of God’s existence. Students weren’t supposed to discuss and critique them, however. We were required to memorize and accept them as true. Being an amateur student of astronomy, I debunked the Kalam Cosmological Argument as it had been interpreted by St. Thomas Aquinas. I dared not voice my criticisms in class, however, for fear of being punished and/or ridiculed in front of my fellow students.

I attended a secular college after high school, which turned out to be a breath of fresh air. I was able to discuss science and religion with many students of other faiths, although I can’t recall meeting any atheists at this time. I still identified myself as Roman Catholic, but my faith was pretty weak by then and I was neglecting to attend Sunday services with increasing frequency.

Following my service in Vietnam, and having witnessed some of the horrors of war, I identified myself as an agnostic. I read a number of books on religion and comparative religious study over the next decade. Some time in the late 1970’s I saw Madalyn Murray-O’Hair on the Phil Donahue Show and was quite impressed with her arguments against religion. I decided to subscribe to her magazine THE AMERICAN ATHEIST. The October, 1982 issue featured an article titled The Agnostic’s Dilemma, which was an epiphany for me. From that moment onward, I knew that I was an atheist and probably had been one for some time without realizing it.

[johndoe122931]

I grew up in a Catholic household. My religious indoctrination began even before I was old enough to attend school. I can still recall how my mother taught me to say simple prayers and that the world was created by God from nothing. I was skeptical of this outrageous claim, even at the tender age of four or five years.

I attended three Catholic schools during my youth. Each class featured about 40 minutes of daily prayers and anywhere from an hour to three hours of religious instruction and study. Students were literally smothered in a miasma of religion. Walls were festooned with religious imagery and there were statues of Jesus, Mary and the saints everywhere. Only the restrooms were free of this nonsense. Every book, regardless of subject, contained religious imagery. I can still recall how most of the geography books I had to study featured articles on churches, missions and famous saints in each country around the world. History books concentrated more on the history of the Church than that of the world.

Fear was an essential element of my indoctrination. Nuns were especially fond of scaring their students with tales of the horrors of Hell. These stories were frequently supplemented by horrific images of Hell, guaranteed to traumatize young minds. Physical abuse was also an acceptable teaching tool. Slow learners were apt to have their hair pulled and their faces slapped, not to mention being struck with rulers and oaken rods. My 8th grade nun's favorite method of abuse, which she carried out with great frequency and relish, was to seize a boy by the cheeks or hair and repeatedly bash his head against a wall. This happened at a time in which a public school teacher would have gone to jail for similar behavior.

This abuse extended into my home life as well. My father was a Bible-thumping Lutheran who firmly believed in the biblical adage that “...by the blueness of their wounds shall they be cleansed.” He would frequently beat my younger brother and I for petty offenses, real or imagined, with sticks or a belt. He began using the strap on me when I was only four or five years old. While I showed a grudging respect for him during his life, I did not shed so much as a single tear for him at his funeral.

The first serious cracks in my faith occurred when I had to study the Bible. Even the bowdlerized Catholic version I had to read revealed a God who was anything but loving and benevolent, but rather an insecure, malevolent, egotistical tyrant. The Book of Job, in particular, turned my stomach.

My senior religion classes included learning proofs of God’s existence. Students weren’t supposed to discuss and critique them, however. We were required to memorize and accept them as true. Being an amateur student of astronomy, I debunked the Kalam Cosmological Argument as it had been interpreted by St. Thomas Aquinas. I dared not voice my criticisms in class, however, for fear of being punished and/or ridiculed in front of my fellow students.

I attended a secular college after high school, which turned out to be a breath of fresh air. I was able to discuss science and religion with many students of other faiths, although I can’t recall meeting any atheists at this time. I still identified myself as Roman Catholic, but my faith was pretty weak by then and I was neglecting to attend Sunday services with increasing frequency.

Following my service in Vietnam, and having witnessed some of the horrors of war, I identified myself as an agnostic. I read a number of books on religion and comparative religious study over the next decade. Some time in the late 1970’s I saw Madalyn Murray-O’Hair on the Phil Donahue Show and was quite impressed with her arguments against religion. I decided to subscribe to her magazine THE AMERICAN ATHEIST. The October, 1982 issue featured an article titled The Agnostic’s Dilemma, which was an epiphany for me. From that moment onward, I knew that I was an atheist and probably had been one for some time without realizing it.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. First off I would like to thank you for your service! It takes a courageous human being to put themselves in such a situation and for that I thank you! I'm so sorry to hear what you have been through. It is unfortunate that this was and is still a common theme within the RCC for far far too long and why so many have left the RCC in droves, well that and the fact the pedophilia runs free within that particular organization with little to no justice being served to the sick individuals involved. It takes a lot to tell the story you did and I truly appreciate you for sharing that with us all. Thank you again!

[Abaddon_ire]

No explanation was needed. Brian37 took the liberty to interject on your behalf. I fully understood what you meant.

Since it seems this thread has gone off the rails I suppose I can answer your questions rather quickly. I will number them so as to help you follow along.

1) Do you agree that Zeus exists as a concept, yes or no? YES

Great. The concept of Zeus exists as a concept.

2) Do you believe in Zeus as a real god, yes or no? YES

Nonsense. You are claiming that if you go to Greece and climb Mount Olympus that you will find Zeus sitting in his palace hurling lightning bolts at those who displease him. Really?

Why on earth would you believe such a foolish thing?

3) Do you hate Zeus or are you indifferent to him? Which is it? Yes, I hate Zeus

Why would you hate an imaginary figment of an ancient mythology?

How about Sauron? Lord Voldemort? Morgoth? Unicorns? Pixies? The Nac Mac Feegle? Crom? Cthulhu?

I hope this answers your questions.

Nope. It just opens up more. For example, is there any claimed concept of a god that you believe is not a real entity?

[arewethereyet]

My little parrot, Zeus, is offended.