Frank no like when not play by Frank definitions/rules. Frank like Frank atheist label only.

Kind of like some theists I know.

OK Frank, if you actually want to have a meaningful conversation here's what you need to do:
- Stop hurling insults. Yes, others have done it too but that doesn't make you any better. Calling people gullible and such is a sure fire way to derail any conversation.
- Stop telling people what they think or believe. Or don't believe. It's arrogant and insulting. Ask instead.

Here's what it should look like:

You: OK, if you believe that no gods exists then why don't you believe that a god that simply created the universe could exist?

Me: Well, there are a couple of problems with that. One, you don't have an adequate definition. I can't disprove what you can't define. If you'd like to elaborate we can discuss further. Two, the god that you describe is indistinguishable from natural forces. We don't need to call these natural forces god because they already have names like polydimensional bulk or quantum bounce.

(June 24, 2021 at 12:46 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 11:17 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: Well, seems I am not going to have a reasonable discussion with you.

I'll try to get over my disappointment.

If you have a problem with everybody else then odds are the problem isn't everybody else.

I you went into a religious forum and had a problem with everyone else...would the odds be that they are not the problem?

My take is different from most atheistic thinking. 

Most atheists seem to think that either there are no gods...or it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

I think that is illogical. 

That causes some friction. I think the friction is NOT my fault...it is the fault of people who want to think there are no gods or that it is more likely that there are no gods. I have no problem with those kinds of guesses being made, but that is all they are...guesses.

Same thing goes over in the theistic forums. They seem to think there is at least one god...or that it is more likely that there is at least one god than that there are none.

N'est ce Pas?

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(June 24, 2021 at 12:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I just have to know how we're using the word gullible now.  An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in a specific thing.  Do you think they've been tricked by someone into...not believing a thing?

No. But I think you are being a bit disingenuous to suppose that all you are doing is to not "believe" in a thing. I am saying that it seems for most people who use atheist as a descriptor, it goes MUCH further.

Most of those people seem to be of the opinion that either there are no gods...or it is more likely that there are no gods than the reverse. 

I do not "believe" in any gods, but I would never use "atheist" as a descriptor.

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(June 24, 2021 at 12:50 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 12:43 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I do not think you are stupid. I do think many of you are gullible. 

And you aren't? Congratulations on your superiority.

Gullibility implies that we've been misled by somebody else. Who would that be?

Quote:I think anyone who claims to KNOW that there are no gods...is full of it.

Another belief?

I have no idea of how you came to your gullibility. 

And what I think is not a "belief." It IS what I think.

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(June 24, 2021 at 12:59 pm)brewer Wrote: Frank no like when not play by Frank definitions/rules. Frank like Frank atheist label only.

Kind of like some theists I know.

I do not ask anyone to "play by my rules."

I do offer an insight into how I am using words that possibly can be misunderstood.

Most theists I know...do not do that. Interesting that the theists you know...do.

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(June 24, 2021 at 1:28 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: OK Frank, if you actually want to have a meaningful conversation here's what you need to do:
- Stop hurling insults. Yes, others have done it too but that doesn't make you any better. Calling people gullible and such is a sure fire way to derail any conversation.
- Stop telling people what they think or believe. Or don't believe. It's arrogant and insulting. Ask instead.

Get a grip, Pale.

I am not hurling insults. And I am attempting to have meaningful conversations. I do not tell people what they think or believe. I often mention that whatever they think...is fine with me.

[/quote]

Quote:[quote pid='2045467' dateline='1624555735']
Here's what it should look like:

You: OK, if you believe that no gods exists then why don't you believe that a god that simply created the universe could exist?

Me: Well, there are a couple of problems with that. One, you don't have an adequate definition. I can't disprove what you can't define. If you'd like to elaborate we can discuss further. Two, the god that you describe is indistinguishable from natural forces. We don't need to call these natural forces god because they already have names like polydimensional bulk or quantum bounce.

So you want to tell me what to write and how to write it?
Wow!
[/quote]

The concept of god is so poorly defined that when I'm asked if I believe in god I don't know what they are talking about. When I quiz the quizzers it turns out they don't either.

(June 24, 2021 at 2:11 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: The concept of god is so poorly defined that when I'm asked if I believe in god I don't know what they are talking about. When I quiz the quizzers it turns out they don't either.

I can understand that. There certainly many definitions of gods.

For the purposes of this discussion...and for the purposes of my questions, I have defined what I mean when I use the word "gods" in my questions.

Use that if you want to answer the questions.

(June 24, 2021 at 2:26 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 2:11 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: The concept of god is so poorly defined that when I'm asked if I believe in god I don't know what they are talking about. When I quiz the quizzers it turns out they don't either.

I can understand that. There certainly many definitions of gods.

For the purposes of this discussion...and for the purposes of my questions, I have defined what I mean when I use the word "gods" in my questions.

Use that if you want to answer the questions.

I’m still not quite sure why you’re here.

(June 24, 2021 at 6:53 am)Foxaire Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 6:43 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: @Frank Apisa

If you are not an atheist then you are a THEIST. So, which god do you believe in?

False Dilemma.

Um, no. A-theist means “not a theist.” It’s a true dichotomy.

(June 24, 2021 at 2:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 2:26 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I can understand that. There certainly many definitions of gods.

For the purposes of this discussion...and for the purposes of my questions, I have defined what I mean when I use the word "gods" in my questions.

Use that if you want to answer the questions.

I’m still not quite sure why you’re here.

That’s ok - neither is he.

Boru

(June 24, 2021 at 1:45 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

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(June 24, 2021 at 12:49 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I just have to know how we're using the word gullible now.  An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in a specific thing.  Do you think they've been tricked by someone into...not believing a thing?

No. But I think you are being a bit disingenuous to suppose that all you are doing is to not "believe" in a thing. I am saying that it seems for most people who use atheist as a descriptor, it goes MUCH further.

That's all atheism is.  Anyone who doesn't believe in gods, for any reason or no reason at all, is an atheist.  If you have some issue about some other thing, that's all well and good, but what would that have to do with atheism?

Quote:Most of those people seem to be of the opinion that either there are no gods...or it is more likely that there are no gods than the reverse. 

I do not "believe" in any gods, but I would never use "atheist" as a descriptor.

Doesn't matter much whether you use it or not, the term accurately describes the position you've expressed.  You don't believe in gods, neither do atheists, but you still have some other disagreement with some atheists.. to that I could only say join the club.  Atheists commonly disagree with each other on all but just that one thing.  None of us believe in gods.

Your main complaint in our exchange, for example, has nothing to do with atheism.  You think that I'm being unreasonable or gullible, though you can't quite explain how, what about, or why. Consider the inanity of this thread. You thought that atheism meant something that it didn't. In spite of simple correction, you still insist that it means that thing..but to no apparent end, because even if you can find someone to make the claim you thought atheism was, and you have...you still don't have much to say on the issue.

(June 24, 2021 at 2:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 2:26 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I can understand that. There certainly many definitions of gods.

For the purposes of this discussion...and for the purposes of my questions, I have defined what I mean when I use the word "gods" in my questions.

Use that if you want to answer the questions.

I’m still not quite sure why you’re here.

I'm here to ask questions of people who describe themselves as atheists; I'm here for information; I'm here for discussion and conversation; and I'm here for the friendship and love that Internet forums engender.

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(June 24, 2021 at 2:39 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 6:53 am)Foxaire Wrote: False Dilemma.

Um, no. A-theist means “not a theist.” It’s a true dichotomy.

NO...it does not!

Let's not introduce that silliness.