(June 27, 2021 at 11:28 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 5:47 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: I have been wrong many, many times. And when I am wrong in a post on the Internet...I acknowledge being wrong and apologize.

Yeah, right. Pull the other one, it has bells on. A quick search on the web shows that you've been doing this schtick on various forums for over a decade. It's the only tune you seem to know. You simply can't learn.

Others have suggested that you're a troll but I think you're actually something sadder. You're a tosser. Literally. You get off on being right, at least in your own mind. You have to feel intellectually superior to everybody else. That's why you're violently allergic to being grouped in with the other atheists, you can't be self-righteous at us if you're one of us. That would entirely defeat your mis-definition of the term and leave you no real argument. You'd be left with theists and hardcore atheist. Nothing new under the sun there. You'd be no more righteous than your average apatheist.

So instead you wander about your skewed little reality whacking your mental meat to the smug satisfaction that you're right. I hope that you get help because this can't be healthy for you.

Awww...you seem to have allowed me to get under your skin.

C'mon. Be more than that, Pale.

By the way, I've been doing this for over TWO decades...not just one.

I am not a troll; I am not a loser; and I sure as hell am not an atheist...even though so many atheist want me to be one.

Have a good day...and go with the flow. Don't let others rule you.

(June 27, 2021 at 11:34 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: Awww...you seem to have allowed me to get under your skin.

C'mon. Be more than that, Pale.

By the way, I've been doing this for over TWO decades...not just one.

I am not a troll; I am not a loser; and I sure as hell am not an atheist...even though so many atheist want me to be one.

Have a good day...and go with the flow. Don't let others rule you.

(June 27, 2021 at 11:25 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 5:47 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: My guess is that you "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

That is my guess.

Are you saying you do NOT "believe" one of those things?

Your guess is wrong.

I do not believe in any god/s.

It's a short sentence. Too difficult for you?

He doesn’t believe in beliefs. He believes beliefs are guesses. So basically, he’s guessing that beliefs are just guesses. Air-right epistemology.

(June 27, 2021 at 10:54 am)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 10:42 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: *poke*

As a matter of interest, LFC...are you related to Marjorie Taylor Greene. You resemble her (or she resembles you)...and you display as much class as she.

Just wondering?

If a jury finds a defendant “not guilty,” does that mean that they also think they know that he’s innocent?

(June 27, 2021 at 12:01 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 11:34 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: Awww...you seem to have allowed me to get under your skin.

C'mon. Be more than that, Pale.

By the way, I've been doing this for over TWO decades...not just one.

I am not a troll; I am not a loser; and I sure as hell am not an atheist...even though so many atheist want me to be one.

Have a good day...and go with the flow. Don't let others rule you.

I do not feel superior to either.

Right now I am simply saying that there is absolutely no way anyone can KNOW that there are no gods.

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(June 27, 2021 at 12:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 11:25 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Your guess is wrong.

I do not believe in any god/s.

It's a short sentence. Too difficult for you?

He doesn’t believe in beliefs. He believes beliefs are guesses. So basically, he’s guessing that beliefs are just guesses. Air-right epistemology.

Poor you, LFC. Poor you.

I certainly will say that the reality is that anyone who says, "I believe there are no gods"...is actually saying, "I am guessing that there are no gods."

Nothing whatever wrong with making that guess...AND IT MAY EVEN BE A CORRECT GUESS.

Too bad so many atheists don't have the ethical wherewithal to simply acknowledge it as a guess.

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(June 27, 2021 at 12:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 10:54 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: As a matter of interest, LFC...are you related to Marjorie Taylor Greene. You resemble her (or she resembles you)...and you display as much class as she.

Just wondering?

If a jury finds a defendant “not guilty,” does that mean that they also think they know that he’s innocent?

No.

Qualifier:  In American law...a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, theoretically, if a jury does not find a defendant guilt, he is deemed by  American law to be innocent.

But I understand the thrust of your question...and I will stick with the answer, NO.

So...go ahead and make something of that.

(June 27, 2021 at 1:04 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 12:01 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

I do not feel superior to either.

Right now I am simply saying that there is absolutely no way anyone can KNOW that there are no gods.

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(June 27, 2021 at 12:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: He doesn’t believe in beliefs. He believes beliefs are guesses. So basically, he’s guessing that beliefs are just guesses. Air-right epistemology.

Poor you, LFC. Poor you.

I certainly will say that the reality is that anyone who says, "I believe there are no gods"...is actually saying, "I am guessing that there are no gods."

Nothing whatever wrong with making that guess...AND IT MAY EVEN BE A CORRECT GUESS.

Too bad so many atheists don't have the ethical wherewithal to simply acknowledge it as a guess.

---

(June 27, 2021 at 12:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: If a jury finds a defendant “not guilty,” does that mean that they also think they know that he’s innocent?

No.

Qualifier:  In American law...a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, theoretically, if a jury does not find a defendant guilt, he is deemed by  American law to be innocent.

But I understand the thrust of your question...and I will stick with the answer, NO.

So...go ahead and make something of that.

Correct. And just so we’re clear, I wasn’t speaking about what “American law” declares. I’m referring to whether or not the jurors must be convinced that the defendant is innocent if they haven’t been convinced of his guilt. You and I seem to agree on this point, so then it shouldn’t be a stretch for you to imagine this analogous to my position regarding god-claims. Someone says “a god exists,” and my position is, “thus far, I have heard no good reason or evidence to accept that claim as true, so I don’t accept it as true.” That doesn’t mean I’m convinced that it’s false.

(June 27, 2021 at 1:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 1:04 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I do not feel superior to either.

Right now I am simply saying that there is absolutely no way anyone can KNOW that there are no gods.

---

Poor you, LFC. Poor you.

I certainly will say that the reality is that anyone who says, "I believe there are no gods"...is actually saying, "I am guessing that there are no gods."

Nothing whatever wrong with making that guess...AND IT MAY EVEN BE A CORRECT GUESS.

Too bad so many atheists don't have the ethical wherewithal to simply acknowledge it as a guess.

---

No.

Qualifier:  In American law...a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, theoretically, if a jury does not find a defendant guilt, he is deemed by  American law to be innocent.

But I understand the thrust of your question...and I will stick with the answer, NO.

So...go ahead and make something of that.

Correct. And just so we’re clear, I wasn’t speaking about what “American law” declares. I’m referring to whether or not the jurors have to think the defendant is innocent if they don’t think he’s guilty. You and I seem to agree on this point, so then it shouldn’t be a stretch for you to imagine this analogous to my position regarding god-claims. Someone says “a god exists,” and my position is, “I have no good reason or evidence to accept that claim as true, so I don’t accept it as true.” That doesn’t mean I’m certain it’s false.

Absolutely, with no doubt whatever...it does not mean that you think it is false.

In no way whatsoever does doubting a claim that there is a god...means that the person is saying that there are no gods...or that the claim is false.

So what?

Frank Apisa

Quote:I do not "believe" any gods exist.

Then you are an atheist. That is what atheist means.let me explain.You saying you are not an atheist would be like someone saying "I believe fully in the extstence of the abrahamic god but do not identify as a theist"How you self identify is of no significance, you don't currently believe in a god, so you are, by definition,  an atheist. pid='2045745' dateline='1624638776'][/quote]

(June 27, 2021 at 1:36 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 27, 2021 at 1:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Correct. And just so we’re clear, I wasn’t speaking about what “American law” declares. I’m referring to whether or not the jurors have to think the defendant is innocent if they don’t think he’s guilty. You and I seem to agree on this point, so then it shouldn’t be a stretch for you to imagine this analogous to my position regarding god-claims. Someone says “a god exists,” and my position is, “I have no good reason or evidence to accept that claim as true, so I don’t accept it as true.” That doesn’t mean I’m certain it’s false.

Absolutely, with no doubt whatever...it does not mean that you think it is false.

In no way whatsoever does doubting a claim that there is a god...means that the person is saying that there are no gods...or that the claim is false.

So what?

So, why are you here telling a bunch of people who have just explained the above to you as their position on the existence of god/s, that their position is not, in fact, their actual position?

(June 27, 2021 at 1:36 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Frank Apisa

Quote:I do not "believe" any gods exist.

Then you are an atheist. That is what atheist means.let me explain.You saying you are not an atheist would be like someone saying "I believe fully in the extstence of the abrahamic god but do not identify as a theist"How you self identify is of no significance, you don't currently believe in a god, so you are, by definition,  an atheist. pid='2045745' dateline='1624638776']

[/quote]

No...I am not an atheist.

There are atheists here insisting I am an atheist.

There are other atheists here insisting I am a theist.

Why don't you all get off it.

I am neither an atheist nor a theist.  Anyone who thinks you must be one or the other just does not understand that it is not a binary choice.